People Should be getting paid for their creations!

[jlv]

I said "maybe". As in, I'm not sure. I can not look into your skull, or into anyone's skull. Neither do I hold a stopwatch for the hours you clock for MXS, or anyone else clocks for MXS.

I can clearly see that the "maybe even harder" was out of line and I agree with you on this being out of line. You have my apology for this.

However. I do keep to my statement about others possibly investing just as much as many hours in user created content, compared to the hours you spent on the actual game so far.

If the coding is that easy why don't you just put in the extra 50% of the effort required to make MVA2009 a stand alone game?

Maybe you're better at it than I am, but for me the coding is hard. It mostly consists of staring at a screen full of obscure symbols trying to find some subtle error hidden in thousands of lines of code. It takes much more time than you think it does, and it isn't fun work in the same way modeling is. Think of it this way, how many people buy a 3d program just to have fun with it? Now, how many people buy a C++ compiler just to have fun with it?

That isn't to say that modeling is all fun and coding is all work. It's just that the fun/work ratio for coding is much lower than it is for art/modeling. That's why more people will create artwork for free than will create software for free.

Btw, if you want to make an expansion pack for MX Simulator, I'd be willing to set up a discount if you buy the full game with the expansion pack.

[DJ99X]

"The All-Knowing MessiaH"

I feel honoured DJ. Thank you very much.

About your actual comment to mine. Mine is as much of a personal statement about the current statement as yours is a personal one.

We obviously do not agree with one another. I don't treat you in a disrespectful way for not agreeing with me. I would appreciate you'd do the same.

Sorry if I was disrespectful to you. I do respect you, and what you do. But yeah, we do have different opinions on this matter.

And yes, I can see where JLV is coming from here. Even writing out 100 lines of code, just to get a black box to come up and ask you a few questions and calculate things from it, that was painful. Can't imagine what JLV has gone through with 60000 lines of code. And with the amount of mathematical knowledge and research JLV put into this game, he deserves every cent he gets.

What a topic huh?

[MessiaH]

This is probably one of the most unbelievable statements I have ever read. And from somebody who has game design experience no less?

I am actually blown away by some of the comments in this thread. Never in the history of PC mx games, to my knowledge, has anybody gotten paid for user created content. I've been around since MCM2 days and I have yet to see any evidence of this. So why when MessiaH comes along with this "nothing comes for nothing" campaign does everybody put on their stingy pants? I'm not sure if it's because only one guy created this game or perhaps because JLV paid more attention to the physics part of this game rather than how good it looks. For some reason however this game has been under criticism lately and I'm not sure why. If you don't think this game is good, then why be here?

MessiaH, I just don't really understand how one can come onto a forum, tell the creator that his game "would be nothing", and expect not to hear something in return. As mentioned on MXHQ, you believe "there simply is no decent motocross game around for the PC, and by the looks of it there wont be one anytime soon. And I certainly am not going to sit back and wait an eternity for something to come by. I'll just pull my hands from behind my head, pick my feet off my desk, and work for that what I want; A decent motocross game." So your idea of fixing it, take an old game and make it look better. Why don't you start on your own mx game? After all, it takes more hours to skin and model than it does to create a full fledged game remember? ^^ With as much time as you’ve spent on that Sobe/No Fear Honda you could have put together 2-3 mx games by now.

I will not bother to go into detail with you about what you just said. Because it simply makes no sense what so ever.

If you would had read my comments clearly, and would have understood them clearly, you would have saved yourself from posting such a silly arguement.

If the coding is that easy why don't you just put in the extra 50% of the effort required to make MVA2009 a stand alone game?

Maybe you're better at it than I am, but for me the coding is hard. It mostly consists of staring at a screen full of obscure symbols trying to find some subtle error hidden in thousands of lines of code. It takes much more time than you think it does, and it isn't fun work in the same way modeling is. Think of it this way, how many people buy a 3d program just to have fun with it? Now, how many people buy a C++ compiler just to have fun with it?

That isn't to say that modeling is all fun and coding is all work. It's just that the fun/work ratio for coding is much lower than it is for art/modeling. That's why more people will create artwork for free than will create software for free.

Btw, if you want to make an expansion pack for MX Simulator, I'd be willing to set up a discount if you buy the full game with the expansion pack.

Because right now I only have the spare time for only one of those two. The reason why I went for the visual, rather than the coding aspect of these two even halfs is quite simple. I've studied this aspect into detail and have most experience with it. Let alone, that the aspect drives me most. (I do understand the coding part very well too. As I too know my way around code and have coded various games for my study in the past. It just does not drive me the same way visuals drive me.)

This is a personal preference. And I'm sure you went for the coding part as that is your preference. At least let's be honest, you wouldn't have worked on something for this long if you did not have any interest in it what so ever. Right?

Sure, you go through some hard and frustrating moments while coding. But I too have those hard and frustrating moments while attending to the visual aspect of a game. And someone working on pure audio, will too go through these moments. But I think it's all but logic that we both do our equal share of work. A game without code, wouldn't be a game. A game without visuals, wouldn't be a game. A game without audio, wouldn't be a game. So in the end, code and visual, are equal.

I think all of us can agree on the aspects code, visual and audio being equal?

PS. About possible MXS expansion packages. I think we should take this private rather than talking about it in public. I've PMed you.

[jlv]

Because right now I only have the spare time for only one of those two. The reason why I went for the visual, rather than the coding aspect of these two even halfs is quite simple. I've studied this aspect into detail and have most experience with it. Let alone, that the aspect drives me most. (I do understand the coding part very well too. As I too know my way around code and have coded various games for my study in the past. It just does not drive me the same way visuals drive me.)

This is a personal preference. And I'm sure you went for the coding part as that is your preference. At least let's be honest, you wouldn't have worked on something for this long if you did not have any interest in it what so ever. Right?

No, that's not really true. I can't wait until all the major coding is done and I can just kick back and make tracks and models. Thankfully, I'm almost there now that multiplayer just about done.

That's not to say that some of the coding isn't interesting, but it's mostly just drudgery.

[Voutare]

I don't know about you JLV, but I don't think your ever going to be done with coding.

There is just so much that can be done with this engine, from body positioning, to riders taking diggers, to tire pressures and traction, to the way that the tilemaps and terrain work.

This simulation has so much possibilities, that I'm thinking you are going to be coding for a while.

[ddmx]

I don't know about you JLV, but I don't think your ever going to be done with coding.

There is just so much that can be done with this engine, from body positioning, to riders taking diggers, to tire pressures and traction, to the way that the tilemaps and terrain work.

This simulation has so much possibilities, that I'm thinking you are going to be coding for a while.

lol. Sounds like a demand to me on your part Voutare. I'm sure jlv will stop the coding of the game when he feels satisfied and complete with his game. Until then I'm sure he'll keep going strong, but nothing lasts forever.

[yomo]

Wow look at the topic i started! Hehehe With jlv and messiah starting to realise together they could make the best motocross simulator possible.

I think an expansion pack sounds much much better than a stand alone creator.

Nice uhh pep talk voutare :p

[MessiaH]

No, that's not really true. I can't wait until all the major coding is done and I can just kick back and make tracks and models. Thankfully, I'm almost there now that multiplayer just about done.

That's not to say that some of the coding isn't interesting, but it's mostly just drudgery.

You'll too experience drugery due to a high repetitive level of work when attending to visuals. You should know so

[Voutare]

No, that's not really true. I can't wait until all the major coding is done and I can just kick back and make tracks and models. Thankfully, I'm almost there now that multiplayer just about done.

That's not to say that some of the coding isn't interesting, but it's mostly just drudgery.

You'll too experience drugery due to a high repetitive level of work when attending to visuals. You should know so

I'm sure it's not as repetitive as what I do.

I hate McDonalds.

[Pumaxcs]

"Would you like fries with that?"
"Would you like to biggy size that?"
LMAO

[Voutare]

I don't work counter. I am the person who cooks the burgers.

And holy shit, I cook burgers. I'd guess that I easily cooked 600 in the last 4 hours I was there.

[Sweendoggy]

This game is really fun, but it is just that...a game....

if you want to get paid for your creations, get a job making models and graphics for a game with a company...

People create skins for fun and what not for this game and that is cool...

i won't pay for skins, especially because you would need to buy damn near all of them to see everyone in the game...

with Dj's amazing templates, anyone can make a sick skin...

i don't know much about modeling, but i can imagine it is pretty hard to do, and tedious after time...i might pay for an amazing model or something, but not a skin, or most tracks...

this game is sick right now as it is, JLV is a pimp, and made the best motocross game ever!

most people on this forum are cool too, because they just want to help make this a funner game, and not a way to make a quick buck...go get a job

i don't mean to offend anyone, because messiah, you have talent for sure, but your services wont be payed for here in my eyes, but you have a future for sure....ddmx, everything you have done for this game is awesome, but if you both left forever and never modelled or skinned for this game again...it would still be the best mx game ever, and still gain popularity...

[yomo]

ahaha no offense but your a little late But your opinion is still appreciated.

if you want to get paid for your creations, get a job making models and graphics for a game with a company...

What difference does it make if people work for a game with a "company" or if they release an expansion pack for a sole proprietor game.

People create skins for fun and what not for this game and that is cool...

i won't pay for skins, especially because you would need to buy damn near all of them to see everyone in the game...

Firstly I suggested that many many skins would still remain free. You have to understand that i was aiming this idea at the absolute top skinners. Skinners such as messiah who wont create for this game otherwise, mainly because they do have that time to just "give away"

i don't know much about modeling, but i can imagine it is pretty hard to do, and tedious after time...i might pay for an amazing model or something, but not a skin, or most tracks...

For some of the great skinners around here a decent skin could take up to or more than 24 hours to make. If this is their job they cant just give away this much time for nothing. Again tracks take even more time when you think of, disp map, textures, objects, object skins, beta testing, sky, shadows and the list continues

most people on this forum are cool too, because they just want to help make this a funner game, and not a way to make a quick buck...go get a job

For some, skinning and modeling is there job. By creating and selling there services they are performing that job. Just because it isnt flipping burgers at McDonalds (No offence Voutare )
Also why does it have to be a company that only pays to have amazing graphics.


These are just my views. Im sure others disagree but people must understand i aimed this purely at the absolute top quality creations. Not for someone out for a quick buck that will try to sell a half hour skin for $1 each.

One of my favorite quotes.
"You rarely get paid more than your worth"

If you want to get paid more than your worth (eg a bad skinner selling his work) it just wont happen

[Garasaki]

and not a way to make a quick buck...go get a job

No one has ever suggested this is a quick way to make a buck, and it's not the "elite" skinners who are suggesting the idea.

I think that's 80% of why this idea is missing it's mark - people skim thru the original few posts and assume it's the content creators trying to make a quick grab for cash.

Again this should just be a nice little recognition for there efforts rather than the often meaningless "oh wow that sick nice work

What bout this - contests 'sponsered' by the community - cash pool prizes that are funded by donations at mxspure or on these forums. Maybe a contest every 3 months. Winners voted on by the community somehow....

[yomo]

yeah i think the contest is a pretty good idea as well...

Who would be happy to donate 5 bucks to that? No obligation but to help the community all donations collected by JLV before and during the contest.

3 contests?
Best track
Best Rider skin
Best Bike


If we can get to $20 for each winner that would be awesome.