When should jlv release 450's?

[SOAB_465]

I still think the power on the 250's feels spot on perfect. The YZ seems exactly the same as IRL in every way to me...

But there is something definitely not right about the chassis on these things. The front end is either way too heavy or way too soft compared to other bikes. If I take any of my 125 250F or 450 setups and switch the bike to a YZ, the forks bottom all over the place... IRL if I put 450 forks on my YZ it would be so harsh I'd be lucky to use half my travel.

Through stubborness and testing it can be made useable for SX but it's definitely more work than the other bikes, and it seems a little off to me

[yzmxer608]

Main thing is still the braking for me. I think I would be able to live with the power but not stopping (or not very consistent stopping) is no fun. For instance, I first rode Chex's new SX track on the yz250, going into the first turn it would take forever to stop (I have noticed that the 250 two strokes are the ONLY bikes so far, that I have to pull the right analog stick (my front brake) down perfectly straight, on the other bikes even if it's a hair off of vertical I can brake fine). I found the bike has to be completely perpendicular to the ground to not get the ABS to start kicking in (which also isn't as noticeable on other bikes). Then I switched to the CRF450 and could stop way sooner... I realize what DJ said before about there being more traction because of the more weight, but I wasn't landing in a corner and trying to stop, I was on flat ground. Unless my suspension makes the front dive that much under braking. Sometimes I can get the bike to stop fine, but other times the thing acts like a freight train, kills me on the inside to not ride the bike but it isn't very consistent for me. Hopefully outdoors will be different...

Wondering how I was able to ride it in Winter Indoor though, unless traction played that much of a difference.

[HESH838]

i disagree, for some reason the 250 smokers on this game feel incredibly slow if your comparing them to the real thing!!
i remember when i first rode a 250 smoker on here when they were originally released i absolutely loved it (i still do its my favourite bike to shred on mxsim). but the first thing i noticed was how incredibly underpowered it is, all the 250's feel the same.. the power curve feels far too linear for me, and it almmost seems like nothing happens when the 'powervalve' kicks in at the higher rpm's!

my 03 cr250 (irl) completely stock will still rip your arms completely out of there sockets in 5th gear if your not carefull.. and it will easily pop the front wheel up in any gear at seemingly almost any rpm range, <and that is with any sprocket / gearing ratio you want to throw at it!,
but when it comes to, for example the 2012 yz250 that im currently riding in the spazztic am open class on here, it will barely lift the front wheel in 2nd gear! it just seems wayyyyyyy underpowered to me!

im not flaming or complaining, and im not suggesting anything needs to be fixed / done about it as i literally have no idea how much time / effort and intelligence is involved in the making of a bike for this game.
i was just pointing out my opinion on the 250's even though they are absolutely amazingly fun to ride as they are!

[jlv]

I keep feeling a similar thing DJ, that the 125's powerband is broader than the 250's..

Either that or the 250 just has so much power, and my controller so imprecise throttle control, that it just jumps straight to 10k.

You really don't get this?

In a way the 125 is broader. The 250 has much more power but it comes and goes before the 125 really starts to pull. Most people rev the 250 way too much in this game.

But there is something definitely not right about the chassis on these things. The front end is either way too heavy or way too soft compared to other bikes. If I take any of my 125 250F or 450 setups and switch the bike to a YZ, the forks bottom all over the place... IRL if I put 450 forks on my YZ it would be so harsh I'd be lucky to use half my travel.

There is something to this. Here are the stock rates I got from Race Tech's site. The 250 forks are soft for some reason. Seems like they should at least be as stiff as the 250f's. Also, remember that when you move the setup over it doesn't use the same absolute numbers. It saves it as the percentage between the lowest and highest rate for that bike.

stock spring rates (mostly 2011 or as new as possible)
fork shock
cr125 .44 4.7
kx125 .42 5.1
rm125 .42 4.6
yz125 .42 4.7

crf250 .45 5.3
kx250f .45 5.1 (.90 single spring fork)
rmz250 .47 5.7
yz250f .44 5.3

cr250 .43 5.0
kx250 .44 5.3
rm250 .43 5.2
yz250 .44 4.7

crf450 .47 5.5
kx450f .48 5.7
rmz450 .48 5.8
yz450f .47 5.7

[Cooter181]

I thought it was more a handling problem that they were complaining about.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm complaining about lol. The 250 smoker in this game is the least useable bike by far, in my opinion obviously. Coming from someone that wanted nothing more than to use this bike but never using it, I'd say there's a real reason behind it and it's not in my head. The 250 is by far the smoothest bike over the whoops, taking them almost effortlessly where the others will buck and swap. It's something in the front end, it just isn't right for cornering or landing jumps consistently lol.

I have a question for you JLV. Could you possibly put the dyno's from the 250 smokers on a 125's frame, model, geometry, etc. and just up the weight a bit? This would be the for sure answer if it's something in the bikes geometry because the 125's behave perfectly, just gutless lol.

[DJ99X]

Read his comments, he said they all use the same geometry, it's just the weight distribution that is different.

[Cooter181]

That's kinda why I said frame, model, geometry, etc., lol.

I have no idea what is different between them as far as the "geometry/weight distribution" stuff goes, I just know that whatever it is it's not working on the 250 smoker for me and many others obviously. Thus my suggestion, or question rather, was if he could just throw the 250's dyno on the 125 and up the weight uniformly and see how it behaved. I have a feeling we'd have a bike that many of us would absolutely love to use.

[jlv]

If I wasn't clear enough in my last post, stiffen your forks! The stock setting is soft.

[SoCaLTJ]

Put my forks all the way up and felt like i could push alot harder on outdoor tracks. Thanks jlv but what about the brakes? The 250s take to long to stop.

[DJ99X]

Brake earlier

[DJ99X]

Heck, I just did a test. They pretty much take the same distance to brake to a stop when going at the same speed. You're obviously going faster than you think you are going

[SOAB_465]

I think the braking complaints are mostly related to the heavy front end too.

If you use stop wheelies or front only, then the 250's pretty much won't stop unless you lean all the way back. Even at that, I run my back brake at 225 on them anyway. If you lean all the way back when you're on the brakes they stop nearly as fast as any other bike. You can get a mean wobble going when you get forward for the corner though

[DJ99X]

What do you mean heavy front end? It's a light front end if anything

[mbork-1]

Heck, I just did a test. They pretty much take the same distance to brake to a stop when going at the same speed. You're obviously going faster than you think you are going

how you know you do it at same speed?do you have speedometr?

[SOAB_465]

What do you mean heavy front end? It's a light front end if anything

Or soft, rather. What I meant is the funny braking seems to get better when you stiffen the forks all the way, and get the rider's weight back on the bike. It's like the forks get so loaded up that they rebound and wash out if you're turning even a tiny bit while you're braking.