Thumpers vs. Smokers in MXS

[DunerDillon]

Its all based on the rider. My family has grown up racing motocross, my dad has been racing since the 90's. 2t's where dominant back then, and 4-strokes were basically junk back then. Now the 4-strokes have gotten all advanced and everyone ride them. I still prefer to ride a 2-stroke. Last year I raced my 125 smoker in the 250f class and could woop most guys on the 4-strokes. A good rider on the bike changes everything. My dad still races a 250 smoker in the 450 classes and woops everyone at our tracks. It's all about the rider.

The 4 strokes have so much torque though, I can see why everyone switched to them in the AMA. 2 strokes you have pinned most of the time on the track (atleast I do, I love being in that powerband and going fast) where as the 4 strokes you don't have to because of the torque. Ktm has undoubtedly the best 2 strokes out right now, and I admit that I love them more than ANY 4 stroke. But KTM is the only brand really developing 2 strokes, Yamaha it seems like they just update the graphics kit every year.

Everyone is different though. Some people love the big 4-strokes for tight trail rides in the woods and stuff, and some love the 2 strokes. I love 2 strokes especially in the Dunes. 4-strokes suck for going up hills and stuff at the dunes because the rpms drop so fast, the 2 stroke keeps them up all the way up the hill. I love 2-strokes and plan on buying another this year.

But as far as all the argueing, its never gonna change. EVERYONE has their OWN opinion about 2 strokes and 4-strokes because EVERYONE rides different and has different styles.

[Ballsfalsky]

Its all based on the rider. My family has grown up racing motocross, my dad has been racing since the 90's. 2t's where dominant back then, and 4-strokes were basically junk back then. Now the 4-strokes have gotten all advanced and everyone ride them. I still prefer to ride a 2-stroke. Last year I raced my 125 smoker in the 250f class and could woop most guys on the 4-strokes. A good rider on the bike changes everything. My dad still races a 250 smoker in the 450 classes and woops everyone at our tracks. It's all about the rider.

The 4 strokes have so much torque though, I can see why everyone switched to them in the AMA. 2 strokes you have pinned most of the time on the track (atleast I do, I love being in that powerband and going fast) where as the 4 strokes you don't have to because of the torque. Ktm has undoubtedly the best 2 strokes out right now, and I admit that I love them more than ANY 4 stroke. But KTM is the only brand really developing 2 strokes, Yamaha it seems like they just update the graphics kit every year.

Everyone is different though. Some people love the big 4-strokes for tight trail rides in the woods and stuff, and some love the 2 strokes. I love 2 strokes especially in the Dunes. 4-strokes suck for going up hills and stuff at the dunes because the rpms drop so fast, the 2 stroke keeps them up all the way up the hill. I love 2-strokes and plan on buying another this year.

But as far as all the argueing, its never gonna change. EVERYONE has their OWN opinion about 2 strokes and 4-strokes because EVERYONE rides different and has different styles.

In 2011, a YZ 250 2 stroke makes 3.6 FT LBS less torque than a YZ450. It's not a matter of how much torque it puts out, its where the torque is.

[Grizz]

Last year I raced my 125 smoker in the 250f class and could woop most guys on the 4-strokes.

C class.

[KTM57]

Sure sounds like it.

[Grizz]

Air five.

[KTM57]

I'm sorry, I can't accept that offer. After winning the local 450 C championship, I am obligated by my Answer sponsorship (9% off on jerseys and goggles) to run 17 Answer stickers on all race and practice bikes and to wear Answer gear exclusively. That means I can't give a high five to a rider not wearing Answer gear.

[On The Pipe]

Everyone knows the rule is not equal but no one truly knows what cc vs what cc would be fair its almost impossible to tell due to all the different types of tracks and dirt. This is the problem when you get into different engine types there's to many variables. The only thing i dont like about the 4 strokes is how expensive and heavy the bikes have become its going in the wrong direction.

I think 250 vs 250 is fine and the premiere class should allow 2 strokes/4 strokes up to 500cc's.

[Phathry25]

Actually it's pretty easy to determine what CC 2t would compete with a 450cc 4t. It's called a dyno. With that being said 250 2t vs 250 4t, is not a fair race. Go to an amateur race once, you'll see. Every kid that wants to be the next RC rides a 250 2t in 250B, and a 450 in 450B. No replacement for displacement, and the 250 2t displaces more air than the 4t all day 'err day.

[On The Pipe]

Actually it's pretty easy to determine what CC 2t would compete with a 450cc 4t. It's called a dyno. With that being said 250 2t vs 250 4t, is not a fair race. Go to an amateur race once, you'll see. Every kid that wants to be the next RC rides a 250 2t in 250B, and a 450 in 450B. No replacement for displacement, and the 250 2t displaces more air than the 4t all day 'err day.

Amateur races are not a good way to gauge how fair the bikes are. They are very short races compared to pro level and there is also full mod classes vs stock classes a lot of sand baggers too. In MX the highest HP and torque doesnt mean everything just because a 250T makes more HP and torque on paper it seems a huge advantage but the bike is way harder to ride fast and fast consistently for long periods of time. The problem is people are too caught up in the scientific/mathematic part of 2 v 4 and its not that simple its a much more complex problem than most people think.

Well wouldnt a rotary engine prove the "displacement" rule wrong? Because they have very small displacements but still can put out a high amount of power.

[Phathry25]

No. Your definition of displacement is wrong. What you refer to as displacement is actually cylinder volume. Which is pretty much irrelevant.

[die996]

Actually it's pretty easy to determine what CC 2t would compete with a 450cc 4t. It's called a dyno. With that being said 250 2t vs 250 4t, is not a fair race. Go to an amateur race once, you'll see. Every kid that wants to be the next RC rides a 250 2t in 250B, and a 450 in 450B. No replacement for displacement, and the 250 2t displaces more air than the 4t all day 'err day.

Taking your explanation, the Aprilia MX bike (it's called MXV450 or something like that), which uses a V-twin 450 engine, should beat any other bike... and that doesn't happen

Btw, if 450 class there doesn't include 2 or 4 strokes I'd definitely use a Gas Gas 300 bike to smoke them all. I'm not a 2-stroke lover but that shit is fast

[On The Pipe]

No. Your definition of displacement is wrong. What you refer to as displacement is actually cylinder volume. Which is pretty much irrelevant.

Even tho the 250T displaces more air you are forgetting about the thermodynamic and volumetric efficiency which is where things start to turn into a gray area.

I wonder if the 450's will soon meet the fate of the 500's GL and some other pros have said the bikes (450's) are just getting to fast.

[Phathry25]

Even tho the 250T displaces more air you are forgetting about the thermodynamic and volumetric efficiency which is where things start to turn into a gray area.

No I'm not. I didn't suggest that a 125 2t was a fair competitor to the 250 4t, did I? All I'm saying is that 250 vs 250 is clearly not fair. I'm also not suggesting that at the amateur level the 250 2t always wins the 250B class. Let's face it, unless you are at Loretta's in the A/Pro Sport classes the bike doesn't really matter.

[On The Pipe]

Actually it's pretty easy to determine what CC 2t would compete with a 450cc 4t. It's called a dyno. With that being said 250 2t vs 250 4t, is not a fair race. Go to an amateur race once, you'll see. Every kid that wants to be the next RC rides a 250 2t in 250B, and a 450 in 450B. No replacement for displacement, and the 250 2t displaces more air than the 4t all day 'err day.

Taking your explanation, the Aprilia MX bike (it's called MXV450 or something like that), which uses a V-twin 450 engine, should beat any other bike... and that doesn't happen

Btw, if 450 class there doesn't include 2 or 4 strokes I'd definitely use a Gas Gas 300 bike to smoke them all. I'm not a 2-stroke lover but that shit is fast

Yeah i cant believe more manufacturers havent tried v-twin design i know its a little more weight but it has its advantages. Look at MotoGP almost all the bikes are V's. In-lines just cant compete.

[kona309]

My god, i was off riding for 4 days and look at the mess this became. The whole premise was to be a disscussion about mxs choices, not real life..
/Thread.