VR Support (Oculus Rift)

[rewrew421]

As usual short sweet to the point.

Is it on the horizon JLV?

[jlv]

It'd be fun to fool with, but no. Would definitely be a challenge to do while following Oculus' best practices. Pretty much everything motion related would be badly violated by a decent MX game -

• Avoid visuals that upset the user’s sense of stability in their environment. Rotating or moving the horizon line or other large components of the user’s environment in conflict with the user’s real-world self-motion (or lack thereof) can be discomforting.
• Acceleration creates a mismatch among your visual, vestibular, and proprioceptive senses. Minimize the duration and frequency of such conflicts. Make accelerations as short (preferably instantaneous) and infrequent as you can.
• Remember that “acceleration” does not just mean speeding up while going forward; it refers to any change in the motion of the user, whether in direction or speed. Slowing down or stopping, turning while moving or standing still, and stepping or getting pushed sideways are all forms of acceleration.
• Have accelerations initiated and controlled by the user whenever possible. Shaking, jerking, or bobbing the camera will be uncomfortable for the player.
• Viewing the environment from a stationary position is most comfortable in VR; however, when movement through the environment is required, users are most comfortable moving through virtual environments at a constant velocity. Real-world speeds will be comfortable for longer. For reference, humans walk at an average rate of 1.4 m/s.
• Teleporting between two points instead of walking between them is worth experimenting with in some cases, but can also be disorienting. If using teleportation, provide adequate visual cues so users can maintain their bearings, and preserve their original orientation if possible.
• Movement in one direction while looking in another direction can be disorienting. Minimize the necessity for the user to look away from the direction of travel, particularly when moving faster than a walking pace.
• Avoid vertical linear oscillations, which are most discomforting at 0.2 Hz, and off-vertical-axis rotations, which are most discomforting at 0.3 Hz.
• Unexpected vertical accelerations, like those that accompany traveling over uneven or undulating terrain, can create discomfort. Consider flattening these surfaces or steadying the user’s viewpoint when traversing such terrain.

[rewrew421]

I didnt read all that word for word but.....


iRacing, very very popular with the rift, breaks almost all those rules? IMO racing games are the cream of the crop for VR systems at this point.

[jgmtbike]

throwing first person whips and scrubs would be sooooo cool

[jlv]

I didnt read all that word for word but.....


iRacing, very very popular with the rift, breaks almost all those rules? IMO racing games are the cream of the crop for VR systems at this point.

That's good to know. I'm just going off stuff I've been reading so maybe it'll work better than I thought. The one difference in a car is that if you consider the car to be your frame of reference you don't really violate those rules since the player doesn't move relative to the car. The player is just sitting in the seat of the car. With a motorcycle it's not immediately obvious what you'd want the player's position and orientation to follow.

[LKR47]

I tried it in MXB. Wasnt very fun... It made me feel sick and also gave me a huge headache which doesnt happen with other VR game Ive played.

[Wahlamt]

Never tried VR before, not exactly sure how those problems JLV described actually plays into the footage being shown, but in sim here, things are happening so quickly, my personal belief is that distortions would be too noticeable but I might be completely wrong. Either way, would really really like to try VR for motosport games.

[rewrew421]

You move inside the car, not like you would on a bike but the current first person view doesnt move that much anyway IMO. Hell in iracing i will turn 100* either direction sometimes to see other cars and what not also move all around inside the car to find other cars in my mirrors or to get a chip i dropped while racing. I would like to see it in sim, ive always wanted to be able to look around in sim as i play in first person mode.

[Big Smooth one3]

the current first person view doesnt move that much anyway IMO.

What 1st person POV are you using, and where do I find it? Because that sure as hell doesn't describe what I see in 1st person...

[ShackAttack12]

It would definitely be difficult to implement properly. The first step, in my opinion, would be smoothing out the first person view a ton. Maybe throw some dampers on it or something. In real life your head stays way more steady than the other parts of your body. The default camera would have to dampen out the motions of the rider in all directions and then allow for user inputted head movement with the Oculus (or whatever headset is worn). So, then, the "anchor point" for the camera would be the rider's head, of course.

I've finally gotten the hardware that supports VR and would really like to see an attempt made towards supporting it in MXS. I think JLV mentioned some time ago that he either tried it or just didnt think it was a good idea.

[jlv]

You move inside the car, not like you would on a bike but the current first person view doesnt move that much anyway IMO. Hell in iracing i will turn 100* either direction sometimes to see other cars and what not also move all around inside the car to find other cars in my mirrors or to get a chip i dropped while racing. I would like to see it in sim, ive always wanted to be able to look around in sim as i play in first person mode.

But the real world is locked to the same position as the virtual car. When you move around in the real world the virtual driver/camera matches your motion. I might be wrong but I don't think locking the real world to the bike would translate as well because the bike is less visible than the inside of the car and it also tends to pitch and roll a lot.

My guess is you'd want to lock the real world vertical axis to the virtual vertical axis and use the yaw from the bike or maybe just derive it from the velocity vector. No matter what it's not ideal for VR because a big part of what makes VR work is matching virtual motion to real world motion. Sitting in a car/boat/spaceship works well, but if you tried to do VR gymnastics it'd be a disaster. MX isn't quite gymnastics but it's probably closer to that than a car game.

[rewrew421]

I understand what your saying but i think shack has a good point as well. I would like to try it

[TwinScroll]

It'd be fun to fool with, but no. Would definitely be a challenge to do while following Oculus' best practices. Pretty much everything motion related would be badly violated by a decent MX game -

I bought the rift to use with DCS World. It just isn't officially supported software. Flying a fighter jet doesn't meet Occulus Best practices either apparently. VR does improve the game experience 100 fold, easily. Why? So much depth. I don't get any motion sickness. Never had it IRL so take that with huge grain of salt.

DCS World has had the hooks for head tracking in place for years though. I don't imagine developing the framework would be easy. It would be worth it. I can't imagine a perfect simulator without VR though.

I'd be more than happy to test the VR MX Sim alpha should you should you reconsider.

[TwinScroll]

You move inside the car, not like you would on a bike but the current first person view doesnt move that much anyway IMO. Hell in iracing i will turn 100* either direction sometimes to see other cars and what not also move all around inside the car to find other cars in my mirrors or to get a chip i dropped while racing. I would like to see it in sim, ive always wanted to be able to look around in sim as i play in first person mode.

But the real world is locked to the same position as the virtual car. When you move around in the real world the virtual driver/camera matches your motion. I might be wrong but I don't think locking the real world to the bike would translate as well because the bike is less visible than the inside of the car and it also tends to pitch and roll a lot.

My guess is you'd want to lock the real world vertical axis to the virtual vertical axis and use the yaw from the bike or maybe just derive it from the velocity vector. No matter what it's not ideal for VR because a big part of what makes VR work is matching virtual motion to real world motion. Sitting in a car/boat/spaceship works well, but if you tried to do VR gymnastics it'd be a disaster. MX isn't quite gymnastics but it's probably closer to that than a car game.

You can't create virtual G in your living room. Walking around in VR is almost always a bad idea. Using VR in a chair, I know that I'm not moving in reality. Flying a jet, driving a car or riding a bike are you are controlling inertia. I don't know if a 360 controller would be precise enough. In a perfect world, use real 1:1 bars for input.

[jlv]

It'd be fun to fool with, but no. Would definitely be a challenge to do while following Oculus' best practices. Pretty much everything motion related would be badly violated by a decent MX game -

I bought the rift to use with DCS World. It just isn't officially supported software. Flying a fighter jet doesn't meet Occulus Best practices either apparently. VR does improve the game experience 100 fold, easily. Why? So much depth. I don't get any motion sickness. Never had it IRL so take that with huge grain of salt.

Like I said before, an airplane is a better fit since the cockpit is basically your world / frame of reference and is very visible.

I'm not saying I don't want to try it. Just being realistic about it being a bad fit for VR according to what I've read.