YOUR SETUP

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Ezra
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Re: YOUR SETUP

Postby Ezra » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:47 am

Thought so, even without an actual "suspension fix" it would still be really nice to know, directly from JLV or someone who is certian, exactly how it works, in terms of the shapes of the functions for progressive and digressive
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jlv
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Re: YOUR SETUP

Postby jlv » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:08 am

Hi Im Skyqe wrote:Correct me if I am wrong but this is how I envision how the valving in MXS works. We have a single valve (the high speed damper) and you have added a low speed damper which basically gives the ability to change the rising/linear/falling rate of the high speed damper.

I am guessing at this however I feel that having a separate low speed damper which works in completely separate situations from the high speed damper would be hard to get a handle on (and be of little value) with how fast our shaft speeds are without having a shim stack to slow down the shaft velocity before the valve itself is able to open.

I honestly think the best way to explain what the drawback of the current suspension is the current suspension feels like we are running an open piston. The open piston makes it harder to tune the damping with the high shaft velocity. Realistically we are fighting for bottoming resistance and using the wrong tool for the job (high speed damper). This creates a harsh suspension on the small chatter.

If we had a shim stack to slow the shaft speeds (in certain points of the stroke) we would be able to have separate tuning for high speed and low speed dampers (relative to speed). Low speed would handle the slower speed damping under a certain speed threshold. The high speed would handle the higher speed damping over a certain speed threshold.

An plain damper will be extremely progressive. It'll have almost no damping at low speed and huge amounts at high speed. A shim stack gives you more linear damping like MXS uses.

I'm not a suspension tuner, so don't take this as gospel, but if you want to put the MXS adjusters in real terms, the high speed softens or stiffens the valving stack, low speed > 50 preloads the stack, and low speed < 50 opens the low speed adjuster.

The "low speed only" adjuster you're asking for doesn't exist in real life. Real adjusters affect high speed too, but it's minimal since the high speed forces are higher.

Also, if you're bottoming you want more high speed damping. The velocities are *high* when the suspension bottoms out due to an impact.
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Hi Im Skyqe
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Re: YOUR SETUP

Postby Hi Im Skyqe » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:40 am

jlv wrote:
Hi Im Skyqe wrote:Correct me if I am wrong but this is how I envision how the valving in MXS works. We have a single valve (the high speed damper) and you have added a low speed damper which basically gives the ability to change the rising/linear/falling rate of the high speed damper.

I am guessing at this however I feel that having a separate low speed damper which works in completely separate situations from the high speed damper would be hard to get a handle on (and be of little value) with how fast our shaft speeds are without having a shim stack to slow down the shaft velocity before the valve itself is able to open.

I honestly think the best way to explain what the drawback of the current suspension is the current suspension feels like we are running an open piston. The open piston makes it harder to tune the damping with the high shaft velocity. Realistically we are fighting for bottoming resistance and using the wrong tool for the job (high speed damper). This creates a harsh suspension on the small chatter.

If we had a shim stack to slow the shaft speeds (in certain points of the stroke) we would be able to have separate tuning for high speed and low speed dampers (relative to speed). Low speed would handle the slower speed damping under a certain speed threshold. The high speed would handle the higher speed damping over a certain speed threshold.

An plain damper will be extremely progressive. It'll have almost no damping at low speed and huge amounts at high speed. A shim stack gives you more linear damping like MXS uses.

I'm not a suspension tuner, so don't take this as gospel, but if you want to put the MXS adjusters in real terms, the high speed softens or stiffens the valving stack, low speed > 50 preloads the stack, and low speed < 50 opens the low speed adjuster.

The "low speed only" adjuster you're asking for doesn't exist in real life. Real adjusters affect high speed too, but it's minimal since the high speed forces are higher.

Also, if you're bottoming you want more high speed damping. The velocities are *high* when the suspension bottoms out due to an impact.


I understand what you are saying on how it works currently. It just seems with the current setup that we do not have enough adjust ability to give bottoming resistance (crash resistance) along with good damping in the the smaller higher frequency bumps. Is there a way of having a second damper setting and having the two separated by the shaft velocity? Could you possibly have in the slider for the low speed damper text stating if the current setting is progressive, linear or digressive? May make things easier for some people to understand. Another possibly is the leverage ratio of the linkage could be too low causing high shaft velocities compared to before? (I know they will be higher due to the rear being rising rate vs before being linear.)

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Re: YOUR SETUP

Postby jlv » Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:19 am

What it really gets down to is if you want suspension for Stewart style hits, you're going to give up something in other areas. That's not unrealistic. It's always going to be a compromise.
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Re: YOUR SETUP

Postby Hi Im Skyqe » Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:33 am

jlv wrote:What it really gets down to is if you want suspension for Stewart style hits, you're going to give up something in other areas. That's not unrealistic. It's always going to be a compromise.


Is there any way you could split the high speed compression damper into two dampers to test? Say anything below 1m/s is low speed and above is high speed?

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Re: YOUR SETUP

Postby Prydz » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:54 am

Here's my suspension:
90
60
70
40
80
50
80
80
70
85
40
60
45

I think it works ok atleast

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Re: YOUR SETUP

Postby jlv » Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:31 am

Hi Im Skyqe wrote:Is there any way you could split the high speed compression damper into two dampers to test? Say anything below 1m/s is low speed and above is high speed?

No. The current settings are flexible enough.
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Re: YOUR SETUP

Postby Hi Im Skyqe » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:11 am

Could adjusting the leverage ratio of the linkage possibly help with some of the inconsistent fall off's that occur from time to time? Maybe a bit too soft initially?

Here is my suspension, is there anything glaring that you see that would cause falloffs? I would like to think it is a pretty neutral setup.

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Re: YOUR SETUP

Postby Prydz » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:48 am

Rider vertical dampning also helps with not falling. That and high speed compression, atleast when it comes to overjumping.

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Re: YOUR SETUP

Postby jlv » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:35 am

Both rider damping settings help. Keeps the rider from slamming into the joint limits quite so hard.
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ty casey
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Re: YOUR SETUP

Postby ty casey » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:03 am

what should i put the rider damping settings at for the least amount of fall offs?
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Re: YOUR SETUP

Postby jlv » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:17 am

I've found setting both damping settings to 75 works well enough. 100 might be better for huge hits.
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kurtmx
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Re: YOUR SETUP

Postby kurtmx » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:02 am

ty casey wrote:what should i put the rider damping settings at for the least amount of fall offs?

Give my rider settings a go if you like.

90
75
90
70
.46
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ty casey
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Re: YOUR SETUP

Postby ty casey » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:59 pm

thxs but now what i really need is a 125 outdoor setup for Loretta Lynns thats coming up, and just in general. :lol:
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funkychicken
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Re: YOUR SETUP

Postby funkychicken » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:57 pm

ty casey wrote:thxs but now what i really need is a 125 outdoor setup for Loretta Lynns thats coming up, and just in general. :lol:
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