2017-08-02 snapshot

Post anything about MX Simulator here. Please. I'm begging you.
HeGgE
Posts: 798
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:56 am
Team: Adept
Location: Sweden

Re: 2017-08-02 snapshot

Postby HeGgE » Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:13 pm

For some reason the erode does not work for me online! i can play online fine but there is barely any erode what so ever while freddie is getting big holes? any suggestions?
Image

User avatar
frederick
Posts: 2409
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:05 pm
Team: Adept
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: 2017-08-02 snapshot

Postby frederick » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:00 pm

Should he even be able to join an erode server? official.mxslobby in this case. He rode all race without a single rut forming.
With the latest snapshot and even my own personal folder.
Image

cameron312
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 8:00 pm
Team: MotoMechanics

Re: 2017-08-02 snapshot

Postby cameron312 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:37 pm

frederick wrote:Should he even be able to join an erode server? official.mxslobby in this case. He rode all race without a single rut forming.
With the latest snapshot and even my own personal folder.



When the first snapshot with erode came out i was able to hop into the erode servers without having that snapshot. Track never changed for me until i finally realized as to why. Needs to be some way to filter out the ones without the correct snaphsot because IMO that can be an advantage if the "smooth" track stays smooth for some and not for others creating "unfair racing"
bossman241 wrote:Are we for sure Tuesday now? I got a chance to get balls deep and wanna take it.

User avatar
frederick
Posts: 2409
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:05 pm
Team: Adept
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: 2017-08-02 snapshot

Postby frederick » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:53 pm

Got it thanks for your help!
Image

jlv
Site Admin
Posts: 12221
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:39 am
Team: No Frills Racing
Contact:

Re: 2017-08-02 snapshot

Postby jlv » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:35 am

cameron312 wrote:
frederick wrote:Should he even be able to join an erode server? official.mxslobby in this case. He rode all race without a single rut forming.
With the latest snapshot and even my own personal folder.



When the first snapshot with erode came out i was able to hop into the erode servers without having that snapshot. Track never changed for me until i finally realized as to why. Needs to be some way to filter out the ones without the correct snaphsot because IMO that can be an advantage if the "smooth" track stays smooth for some and not for others creating "unfair racing"

--min-version 26 on the server will keep the old clients out.
Josh Vanderhoof
Sole Proprietor
jlv@mxsimulator.com
If you email, put "MX Simulator" in the subject to make sure it gets through my spam filter.

cameron312
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 8:00 pm
Team: MotoMechanics

Re: 2017-08-02 snapshot

Postby cameron312 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:07 am

jlv wrote:
cameron312 wrote:
frederick wrote:Should he even be able to join an erode server? official.mxslobby in this case. He rode all race without a single rut forming.
With the latest snapshot and even my own personal folder.



When the first snapshot with erode came out i was able to hop into the erode servers without having that snapshot. Track never changed for me until i finally realized as to why. Needs to be some way to filter out the ones without the correct snaphsot because IMO that can be an advantage if the "smooth" track stays smooth for some and not for others creating "unfair racing"

--min-version 26 on the server will keep the old clients out.


Thanks JLV!! Erode has changed the game completely and it can only get better from here! Huge thank you from a community that doesn't deserve you but absolutely needs you! Keep it up man
bossman241 wrote:Are we for sure Tuesday now? I got a chance to get balls deep and wanna take it.

User avatar
checkerz
Posts: 7657
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:23 am
Team: RaGe Factory

Re: 2017-08-02 snapshot

Postby checkerz » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:50 am

JLV,

Been testing this on a bit of SX and playing with settings, but seems like no matter what I change I'm getting huge kickers at the top of lips, especially exiting corners. These are allowing you to easily go 4-5 into rhythms with ease.

Thoughts on how to fix these from developing and let them wear down instead of building launch curbs? Turn turns and such seem to developing nicely.

I've noticed the same lips outdoors, but it doesn't cause as much issue. Tried both tightening and loosening the angle without really ending hte problem.

Also, any suggestions on creating better straight ruts? I'd ideally like a setting that would just be "soft" dirt that would sink you in. Between SX rhythms when it's wet or a freshly tilled track would be like this.

Finally, are you not using tire spin at all with erode or is it just turned way down? I am noticing the entry/mid part of ruts form nicer than the exits where I would assume it should be the other way around as in addition to force you'd have the tire digging.

Hopefully we can fine tune erode a bit, but it's already really awesome. I've played more in the past few weeks than the past few years just running laps. It's like a new game. Thank you again.

User avatar
checkerz
Posts: 7657
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:23 am
Team: RaGe Factory

Re: 2017-08-02 snapshot

Postby checkerz » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:22 pm

More I forgot to mention...

Going downhills seems to not really form braking bumps at all. I do need to try lowering the lower force number for this though.

Also, is it possible to have erode rate change at all after a certain depth? Thinking of tracks that are fresh prepped with a super soft top but base is harder underneath. Ruts usually can form fast initially, but then it takes them quite awhile to really dig out. Dirt that's soft also moves more easily and the further down and harder the less it moves/gives

jlv
Site Admin
Posts: 12221
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:39 am
Team: No Frills Racing
Contact:

Re: 2017-08-02 snapshot

Postby jlv » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:47 am

You could try a separate tile type for jumps. I'd have expected the default .25 erode_max_slope to prevent much form happening on jumps.

In its current form it won't make straight ruts. It pushes the terrain around according to the force applied without ever lowering it. I guess it might be worth having a second radius that only applies when it lowers for ruts.

Wheelspin isn't part of the formula anymore.

If you're getting nothing on steep downhills, the erode_max_slope setting might be too low.

For depth dependent erode rates it'll need some changes since it currently forgets the original height of the ground. Not a big deal to keep a copy though.
Josh Vanderhoof
Sole Proprietor
jlv@mxsimulator.com
If you email, put "MX Simulator" in the subject to make sure it gets through my spam filter.

User avatar
checkerz
Posts: 7657
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:23 am
Team: RaGe Factory

Re: 2017-08-02 snapshot

Postby checkerz » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:35 am

jlv wrote:You could try a separate tile type for jumps. I'd have expected the default .25 erode_max_slope to prevent much form happening on jumps.

Already doing a separate tile type, but the whole issue is wanting jumps that can get rutted/worn down. If we don't get that, we're just going to get big wall ruts in berms to slingshot you even faster than you're already going into sections and jumping 4-5 jumps in. I can get ruts in faces, but we're getting the weird kicker at the top. Is it possible to fake it specific to a tile to "continue erode" infront of where the bike leaves as a worst case scenario.

In its current form it won't make straight ruts. It pushes the terrain around according to the force applied without ever lowering it. I guess it might be worth having a second radius that only applies when it lowers for ruts.

Yes please.

Wheelspin isn't part of the formula anymore.

Possible to add something or no?

If you're getting nothing on steep downhills, the erode_max_slope setting might be too low.

Already played with this a ton. It'll erode and roughen up a ton on the same slopes or deeper uphill. I am going to try to play with the min/max forces a bit and have found a sort of bandaid of "striping" a harder tileinfo to get something forming but it isn't ideal. I think the straight rut stuff could help with this as well.

For depth dependent erode rates it'll need some changes since it currently forgets the original height of the ground. Not a big deal to keep a copy though.

In my head, the ideal situation with this would be that the lower you go below starting height the harder it gets, and the higher it goes the softer it gets. So anything built "up" from base height would be a bit softer.

Few other things:
The max slope is a bit awkward in berms in spots. For instance on a sand track with a big bowl, to get the ruts to erode the bank it has to be pretty steep, so when it forms it makes more of a wall "rut" versus a softer angle on the berm.

When you crash, it's leaving a hole on impact. Is it possible to have it not erode if the rider is off the bike?

User avatar
MX4EVER
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:49 pm
Team: MXS-Concept.com
Location: France
Contact:

Re: 2017-08-02 snapshot

Postby MX4EVER » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:02 pm

A command like

Code: Select all

server,reload on/off

to let the erode damages after each race will be awesome. Think about Loretta Lynn's races.

jlv
Site Admin
Posts: 12221
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:39 am
Team: No Frills Racing
Contact:

Re: 2017-08-02 snapshot

Postby jlv » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:21 am

checkerz wrote:
jlv wrote:You could try a separate tile type for jumps. I'd have expected the default .25 erode_max_slope to prevent much form happening on jumps.

Already doing a separate tile type, but the whole issue is wanting jumps that can get rutted/worn down. If we don't get that, we're just going to get big wall ruts in berms to slingshot you even faster than you're already going into sections and jumping 4-5 jumps in. I can get ruts in faces, but we're getting the weird kicker at the top. Is it possible to fake it specific to a tile to "continue erode" infront of where the bike leaves as a worst case scenario.

That'd be a bad hack. Better to make the general case work better.

checkerz wrote:
In its current form it won't make straight ruts. It pushes the terrain around according to the force applied without ever lowering it. I guess it might be worth having a second radius that only applies when it lowers for ruts.

Yes please.

OK. That'll probably help with the jumps as well.

checkerz wrote:
Wheelspin isn't part of the formula anymore.

Possible to add something or no?

I could scale the force according to wheelspin. Wouldn't be exactly right but it's the most I could do without making the erode packets bigger.

checkerz wrote:
If you're getting nothing on steep downhills, the erode_max_slope setting might be too low.

Already played with this a ton. It'll erode and roughen up a ton on the same slopes or deeper uphill. I am going to try to play with the min/max forces a bit and have found a sort of bandaid of "striping" a harder tileinfo to get something forming but it isn't ideal. I think the straight rut stuff could help with this as well.

I'd probably make a small starter bump instead of an hard stripe. Are you getting any braking bumps at all with your settings or is it just downhills that are the problem? I wonder if you might be better off starting over with the default settings.

checkerz wrote:
For depth dependent erode rates it'll need some changes since it currently forgets the original height of the ground. Not a big deal to keep a copy though.

In my head, the ideal situation with this would be that the lower you go below starting height the harder it gets, and the higher it goes the softer it gets. So anything built "up" from base height would be a bit softer.

Ideally you'd want a separate height map for each layer so you could have a patch of sand or something that's thin at the edges and deep in the middle. That's be pretty wasteful though. Probably better to just have an extra set of erode parameters and the depth it kicks in at.

checkerz wrote:Few other things:
The max slope is a bit awkward in berms in spots. For instance on a sand track with a big bowl, to get the ruts to erode the bank it has to be pretty steep, so when it forms it makes more of a wall "rut" versus a softer angle on the berm.

When you crash, it's leaving a hole on impact. Is it possible to have it not erode if the rider is off the bike?

If you're leaving a hole on impact you should use a lower erode_displacement and lower erode_upper. That'll cap what large forces do while keeping the same effect for lower force.

MX4EVER wrote:A command like

Code: Select all

server,reload on/off

to let the erode damages after each race will be awesome. Think about Loretta Lynn's races.

It'd be great but it's hard to do with the way the server works. The server is very lightweight. All it does is keep the clients in sync. It doesn't actually understand much of what it's coordinating. I might make some client commands to carry the changes over a restart.
Josh Vanderhoof
Sole Proprietor
jlv@mxsimulator.com
If you email, put "MX Simulator" in the subject to make sure it gets through my spam filter.

User avatar
checkerz
Posts: 7657
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:23 am
Team: RaGe Factory

Re: 2017-08-02 snapshot

Postby checkerz » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:49 am

jlv wrote:
checkerz wrote:
jlv wrote:You could try a separate tile type for jumps. I'd have expected the default .25 erode_max_slope to prevent much form happening on jumps.

Already doing a separate tile type, but the whole issue is wanting jumps that can get rutted/worn down. If we don't get that, we're just going to get big wall ruts in berms to slingshot you even faster than you're already going into sections and jumping 4-5 jumps in. I can get ruts in faces, but we're getting the weird kicker at the top. Is it possible to fake it specific to a tile to "continue erode" infront of where the bike leaves as a worst case scenario.

That'd be a bad hack. Better to make the general case work better.

Totally agree, just with the current parameters I haven't had success while messing with each of the values. Completely lowering the max force value has helped the most along with a steep angle.

checkerz wrote:
In its current form it won't make straight ruts. It pushes the terrain around according to the force applied without ever lowering it. I guess it might be worth having a second radius that only applies when it lowers for ruts.

Yes please.

OK. That'll probably help with the jumps as well.

I look forward to trying this.

checkerz wrote:
Wheelspin isn't part of the formula anymore.

Possible to add something or no?

I could scale the force according to wheelspin. Wouldn't be exactly right but it's the most I could do without making the erode packets bigger.

Definitely worth a shot.

checkerz wrote:
If you're getting nothing on steep downhills, the erode_max_slope setting might be too low.

Already played with this a ton. It'll erode and roughen up a ton on the same slopes or deeper uphill. I am going to try to play with the min/max forces a bit and have found a sort of bandaid of "striping" a harder tileinfo to get something forming but it isn't ideal. I think the straight rut stuff could help with this as well.

I'd probably make a small starter bump instead of an hard stripe. Are you getting any braking bumps at all with your settings or is it just downhills that are the problem? I wonder if you might be better off starting over with the default settings.

On flat ground or slight uphills we're getting great braking bumps. On Millville I even tried using extremely crazy numbers that would get stupid rough under normal conditions and put back in a ton of rough chatter and still wasn't able to get anything more. I'm still learning, but the starter rough seems to be very hit and miss assuming based on size/shape/etc. I'm sure there is some magic there for most situations, but again, I haven't had any luck on downhills yet. It could also be a combination of the lighting hiding what small bumps are forming along with them not forming that much.

For the most part, I'm pretty close to default settings on everything - nothing crazy on any of the different terrain type tests that I've found to work well. I think the defaults are definitely in the ball park.

checkerz wrote:
For depth dependent erode rates it'll need some changes since it currently forgets the original height of the ground. Not a big deal to keep a copy though.

In my head, the ideal situation with this would be that the lower you go below starting height the harder it gets, and the higher it goes the softer it gets. So anything built "up" from base height would be a bit softer.

Ideally you'd want a separate height map for each layer so you could have a patch of sand or something that's thin at the edges and deep in the middle. That's be pretty wasteful though. Probably better to just have an extra set of erode parameters and the depth it kicks in at.


You're the magician, I trust what you can provide :)

checkerz wrote:Few other things:
The max slope is a bit awkward in berms in spots. For instance on a sand track with a big bowl, to get the ruts to erode the bank it has to be pretty steep, so when it forms it makes more of a wall "rut" versus a softer angle on the berm.

When you crash, it's leaving a hole on impact. Is it possible to have it not erode if the rider is off the bike?

If you're leaving a hole on impact you should use a lower erode_displacement and lower erode_upper. That'll cap what large forces do while keeping the same effect for lower force.


I have a test ready to go with this for crashes actually with the lower erode upper and also raised the min speeds for hte holes from guys getting back going to see how that works.

Quick question on slope, is this 0-90 degrees or is it a percentage or what exactly is the max on this number? Also, can you give some examples of force ranges as well? I'm just throwing darts at a board right now basically.

barrington314
Posts: 5988
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:03 pm
Team: me
Location: Charleston, SC

Re: 2017-08-02 snapshot

Postby barrington314 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:05 pm

The way I understand slope is that the erode setting range would be from 0 to 1.0. a slope of 0.5 wouldn't allow anything more than a 45 degree angle.
(I hope I'm correct with that :oops: )
So it might be helpful for you to pull out a gradient in editor and "set from terrain", select some points and see what the slope of say a bowl turn is. If its already at 0.6, for example, then you know you need a tile there that is higher than that. Probably would need a 1.0 to get a decent looking rut. I've also had better results with really low radius in bowl type turns. But you obviously wouldn't want to use that tile on a flat corner. Now the issue I'm seeing then is "fading" the tiles. Where ever two tiles with only different erode settings are coming together you will see an unnatural bump form in some cases. So you might have to use like 5 different tiles in one corner to really get it right. I haven't gone that far with it yet.

As for breaking bumps:
I looked at mt martins hill, and toward the bottom it has a slope of approximately 0.32. So JLV, with default settings right there (0.25 max slope), would nothing form? I'm guessing it would be the same idea as above, assuming I was correct.

ShackAttack12
Posts: 3075
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 1:51 am
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: 2017-08-02 snapshot

Postby ShackAttack12 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:06 pm

barrington314 wrote:The way I understand slope is that the erode setting range would be from 0 to 1.0. a slope of 0.5 wouldn't allow anything more than a 45 degree angle.
(I hope I'm correct with that :oops: )


Isn't the slope in radians?

15* = .26rad
30* = .52rad
45* = .785rad
57.3 = 1.0rad

Maybe I'm wrong... :oops:
ShackAttack12

| 2010 Supercross Champ | 2011 Supercross Champ |

DJ99X wrote:Aka shack is right


Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 15 guests