Why dont you guys do erode tests?

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Jeremy150
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby Jeremy150 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:08 am

So which is it Devin? You can't make it or you choose to do other things? Are you going to a night school? We did erode tests in the middle of the day too..
Look it's pretty simple, without erode none of us are really interested in building these tracks anymore. As far as the RF crew goes, if we're still putting on races it's going to have erode. If everybody would show up to these test races we would have some pretty good settings by now.

Anyways it's not fun when people are complaining about "erode being bad" when they can't even show up to the test races. Erode has come extremely far from last year, and now that we have the ball rolling it sucks that no one wants to help test. But oh well, you guys not making it out to the test races may be the end of competitive racing in sim.
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby jlv » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:17 am

Bubba40 wrote:You can't relate to someone going fast on the track because it's always different.

I can see that for elite players. In quake 3, the pro mode mod removed the random shotgun spread just for the sake of consistency.

Would you want to ditch erode entirely or keep it for stuff like sand tracks?
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby Bubba40 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:28 am

jlv wrote:
Bubba40 wrote:You can't relate to someone going fast on the track because it's always different.

I can see that for elite players. In quake 3, the pro mode mod removed the random shotgun spread just for the sake of consistency.

Would you want to ditch erode entirely or keep it for stuff like sand tracks?

I think erode can work if EMF/RF build a full blown track but they need the erode on a really small scale like so the bumps and corners get little bit more chop in the main line so you have to change lines at some point in the race because at this point the tracks are not fun/challenging.
jlv wrote: In quake 3, the pro mode mod removed the random shotgun spread just for the sake of consistency.

I'm super confused on this post ^ can you explain it?
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby aaronr5 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:44 am

Jakob Hubbard wrote:
Racers52 wrote:IMO the only thing that could revive the game is a new lighting engine with HDR environments, terrain tessalation and 4k terrains, and scripting.

And optimization to allow the use of more than 1 core in your processor.


People always ask for this and I am pretty sure JLV said it somewhere before but I feel like people greatly overrate the effects this would have on MX Sims performance. I don't think people understand that just throwing more cores at a program does not always equal better performance. Yes, some things are possible to run in parallel but some things just aren't that simple especially with game physics.

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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby jlv » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:45 am

Bubba40 wrote:
jlv wrote: In quake 3, the pro mode mod removed the random shotgun spread just for the sake of consistency.

I'm super confused on this post ^ can you explain it?

Way back in the olden days, there was a game called Quake 3. It was the first online first person shooter for a lot of people. It had a shotgun where the pellets would form a random pattern. This random element frustrated pro players because the shotgun could hit or miss based entirely on luck, so the shotgun in the CPMA (i.e. pro mode) mod shot a fixed grid pattern.
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby Ddavis » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:48 am

I think erode has been a neat addition to nationals, but I don't think it's necessary for every track. I think it is cool for tracks like Southwick and perhaps Unadilla, but I don't see a place for it on a tight track like Hangtown or Muddy Creek. I know Chris has been super defensive whenever I bring this up, but I think it should be ditched completely for SX. Supercross used to be fun, but this year it was all about luck. You had to get through the first lap crash-free, but after that it turns into a slot car track and it's follow the leader. The only way you made passes were if you punted someone out of a rut or if they crashed by themselves. Last year, with no erode, there were so many passing opportunities by squaring up riders or diving inside of them, this year we missed that aspect of it. Chris mentioned that if we get the ruts in berms a bit tighter then it can work, but with the physics on this game it would just create an even more inconsistent, slippery-type surface. Just my 2 cents, and don't try to say I'm complaining because I've probably been at more races than anyone at this point through the years.
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby Hi Im Skyqe » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:02 am

It's tough Hunter... I see the frustrations with erode and why some may think that the old tracks with premade rough and ruts might be better. But for me it goes both ways, the tracks you are posting about received the same kind of feedback that erode is getting now. I think both styles will always have detractors.

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You can ask anyone who attended the erode test races. The tracks develop completely different than in the moto's. The tracks developed multiple lines which were competitive speed wise and people were overall happy with the outcome. I think two things are causing the issues with erode that have some people unhappy. There never have been true mock test races with 40 riders on the track due to lack of attendance to finalize the tileinfo ensuring it isn't too aggressive. People are finding the 'fast' line in qualifying and everyone plays follow the leader until they can't anymore in the moto's. Having a slightly different track for qualifying than the moto's might be an idea to try but overall, people showing up to a test race to help finalize tileinfo settings would be a great start..

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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby team canada » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:24 am

Personally I just don't think erode is very much fun to play at all in it's current form, in theory it sounds great but in practice it's not very good. I don't know all the details but I believe it could be good with some improvements made on JLV's end to stop everything from being so choppy and jagged. Maybe being able to fill the test race gates would help solve that as well but as one of the maybe 10 - 15 people who consistently showed up to the test races (didn't end up making it to all but I was probably there for at least 75% of them) I haven't really seen much of an improvement from the beginning of the series. In fact I would argue that the Hangtown erode was better than some of the later rounds, obviously this isn't from lack of trying from the track crew but it's just my opinion.

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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby TeamHavocRacing » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:51 am

team canada wrote:...stop everything from being so choppy...

They always blame everything on me!
jlv wrote:I disagree with your disagreement.

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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby TeamHavocRacing » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:30 am

jlv wrote:Way back in the olden days, there was a game called Quake 3. It was the first online first person shooter for a lot of people.

This is so cool to see you mention! It also was the first to force you to play 1v1 in single player to learn online-style play, which used a 56k modem. Did you play? What was your handle? I can't remember mine and I think it was before I used PizzaChet. Might've been Chuck Grenades.
jlv wrote:I disagree with your disagreement.

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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby Atom6246 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:44 am

Feel like people don't want to adapt to change thats for the better. Erode isn't even a ground breaking invention. It's something we should have had for years now tbh. We maybe should have tested it more but I guess that really wasn't possible so every week we learn something new. I just dont see how people think non erode racing is fun/better. The tracks being 1 lined has been a thing for a while. Erode hasn't necessarily fixed that nor make it worse.
Obviously erode could be better but all Im saying is, the usual's that show up to test races rarely complain. It's always the ones who do fuck all that complain the most.
The amount of time Chex puts into tracks and testing for us is insane. The least you can do is show up to a test race when you see one. He's not doing this for himself. People have to remember that.
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby checkerz » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:59 am

Bubba40 wrote:I think erode can work if EMF/RF build a full blown track but they need the erode on a really small scale like so the bumps and corners get little bit more chop in the main line so you have to change lines at some point in the race because at this point the tracks are not fun/challenging.


I wish more people had your attitude. As soon as the main line gets rough enough to force guys out of it we get complaints to turn down erode.

The game was dying off well before erode, and as many guys are psosibly upset and leaving because of it, just as many I'd argue are staying because it's new. Without evolution, it's stale and guys go.

Interesting you mention the single player aspect. That was actually one of the motivations of the "Muddy Creek" style erode, as it formed up faster for a single rider. Unfortunately, with multiple guys it ended up being a chatter fest.

I'm still learning... well was, rapidly. And while progress maybe didn't seem that apparent on the outside, I was learning each setting more and more and felt like we weren't all that far off from something great.

Everyone has their reasons (excuses) for not making the tests, but the fact is, there wasn't enough attendance to justify my time. I felt like I gave my best efforts to fill the gates INCLUDING GIVING OVER 24 HOURS NOTICE MULTIPLE TIMES to get the same 15-20 riders showing up each time.

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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby TeamHavocRacing » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:04 am

Main reason is...THEY FEAR CHANGE! Get them out of their comfort zone and then someone else will now be better than them. Kinda like if you took away the shooter games you can use hacks in.
jlv wrote:I disagree with your disagreement.

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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby xsrE » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:38 am

I haven't been apart of this community for very long and i would hate for it to fall apart anytime soon but i thought i would just deposit my 2 cents in, The fast lines will always be the fast lines, regardless of erode or not, yes erode definitely makes those lines a lot more visible and sometimes a lot rougher, therefore forcing alternate lines. Even if the races didn't use erode there would still be fast lines, why slow up for an inside just to "mix it up" when you can hold it pinned around the outside. i speak bullshit i know :mrgreen:
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby Racers52 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:22 am

xsrE wrote:The fast lines will always be the fast lines, regardless of erode or not, yes erode definitely makes those lines a lot more visible and sometimes a lot rougher, therefore forcing alternate lines. Even if the races didn't use erode there would still be fast lines, why slow up for an inside just to "mix it up" when you can hold it pinned around the outside. i speak bullshit i know :mrgreen:


Bubba40 wrote:I think erode can work if EMF/RF build a full blown track but they need the erode on a really small scale like so the bumps and corners get little bit more chop in the main line so you have to change lines at some point in the race because at this point the tracks are not fun/challenging.


I think both of these are good statements.


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