Why dont you guys do erode tests?

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checkerz
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby checkerz » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:40 pm

Erode on the replica nationals wasn't, isn't, and won't be designed around playing in single player or qualifying. It has been tuned to work at its best for racing.

No one is stopping you from playing the 5+ years of the tracks with prebuilt lines. No one is stopping you from creating your own tracks for single player.

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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby jlv » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:49 am

TeamHavocRacing wrote:
jlv wrote:Way back in the olden days, there was a game called Quake 3. It was the first online first person shooter for a lot of people.

This is so cool to see you mention! It also was the first to force you to play 1v1 in single player to learn online-style play, which used a 56k modem. Did you play? What was your handle? I can't remember mine and I think it was before I used PizzaChet. Might've been Chuck Grenades.

I put way too many hours into that game. I played a lot of 1v1 at first then threewave capturestrike and ultra freeze tag. I'd say what my name was but it'd ruin my facade of professionalism...

MXJProductions wrote:Robin hit the nail on the head. Although I am sure he doesn't agree with the point I am about to make, but it stems off of what he stated. I feel like racing has put this game in a decline. I wouldn't say RF because they were just the one's to facilitate the racing aspect, and let's face it this game is a dirt bike racing simulator so of course racing should be at the forefront. However, now everyone is so wrapped up in teams, racing, stats etc etc basically the politics of the community. I don't view this community as fun as it once was, maybe that's because most of us have gone on to focus on the real world more, and grow up so to speak ( I don't mean that in a bad way ). Racing has split everyone up, built cliques, and is just pure nastiness in my opinion. This game needs more fun, and less seriousness if it wants to make a return at being big again. Big as in back in the vmg days, every video uploaded regardless of the game uploaded people used to always mention mxs. Now, no one seems to care and arcade style games is on the uprise.

I agree there's a void for beginner/casual racers. I've been thinking about doing a "track of the week" series for less serious riders. Vote on which track, ride the hell out of it for a week, have an official race on it, then on to the next one.

checkerz wrote:Erode on the replica nationals wasn't, isn't, and won't be designed around playing in single player or qualifying. It has been tuned to work at its best for racing.

No one is stopping you from playing the 5+ years of the tracks with prebuilt lines. No one is stopping you from creating your own tracks for single player.

Maybe it'd be a good idea to run a practice session on the next round's track for erode testing? People would definitely show up for that. Then you could manually tweak stuff before the real race. (I know, having the track ready early is easier said than done.)

I'm working on some erode telemetry stuff which will hopefully make it easier to see what's going on with the settings.
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby checkerz » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:55 am

jlv wrote:Maybe it'd be a good idea to run a practice session on the next round's track for erode testing? People would definitely show up for that. Then you could manually tweak stuff before the real race. (I know, having the track ready early is easier said than done.)


That's exactly what I've been trying to do all season. Creating a hybrid between 2017 smooth/2018/and sometimes some custom stuff. Sometimes we actually used the exact final terrain. Guys didn't show up as crazy as that sounds.

I'm working on some erode telemetry stuff which will hopefully make it easier to see what's going on with the settings.


I'm intrigued... but also it's going to take quite a bit to get me to go back to banging my head against a wall begging people to show up to develop erode further.

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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby checkerz » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:58 am

Also, right now the Amateur community is much stronger than the Pro one (at least for NA).

My guess is, the Amateurs likely are enjoying the new tracks as they are much easier to pick up and play.

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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby jlv » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:07 am

checkerz wrote:I'm intrigued... but also it's going to take quite a bit to get me to go back to banging my head against a wall begging people to show up to develop erode further.

It's actually for single player since by the time it gets sent across the network most of the information is gone. Mostly what I want is to make it easier to look at all the parameters so it's easier to figure out what it's doing on any single pass.
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby Haberfield24 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:32 am

checkerz wrote:Erode on the replica nationals wasn't, isn't, and won't be designed around playing in single player or qualifying. It has been tuned to work at its best for racing.

No one is stopping you from playing the 5+ years of the tracks with prebuilt lines. No one is stopping you from creating your own tracks for single player.


I suppose qualifying doesn't matter when 15 people are finishing pro 450 races at RD6 in EU.

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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby Ddavis » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:07 am

I'm sure if you ask the majority of racers who quit racing this year in particular probably wouldn't say erode is bad, but they'd probably agree along the lines of Fro that the tracks just aren't fun to ride when they're freeways. It's pointless going into a server with 1-2 people and not having ruts form, you're basically riding a stock track. Also, you can't ride in the servers unless you paid for a membership. Stralo has been working and hasn't been able to race so he didn't pay for a membership, but he hopped onto sim and we had to find some random ass server to play on some track I had to download because I don't really play tracks other than the national tracks.
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby checkerz » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:40 am

Ddavis wrote:but the short amount of time that he has to host an erode test with maximum 2-3 hours notice is hard to keep up with

FYI, this theory has just been proven to be complete BS.

I released a track, put in thread "race right now" and immediately had more guys than most erode tests.

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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby xsrE » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:50 am

checkerz wrote:
Ddavis wrote:but the short amount of time that he has to host an erode test with maximum 2-3 hours notice is hard to keep up with

FYI, this theory has just been proven to be complete BS.

I released a track, put in thread "race right now" and immediately had more guys than most erode tests.


i honestly think that is because now that you have expressed how you felt more people are willing to help out because they now realise without you this game stops #savesim
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby DBRider251 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:13 am

I don't come to the erode tests because I'm usually working, doing something already, or it's almost over when I hear about it.

I think the main problem with erode is that it's still a work in progress. If it was final and the track crew knew what to put into the files each week to make it flawless, it would be great. I don't think people would complain as much (crazy of me to believe) and people would know more of what to expect. But what happened was, they fully implemented it into the main series in the game without knowing how it was going to react to its fullest extent. I believe that was a mistake and probably pissed a good amount of people off. I think it would have been better to see another 2017-like series with some erode tests going on during the off days, but ya know. $.02.

Honestly, I like erode. I bitch and complain about it, but it's making the game more fun to me. Southwick was AMAZING. I loved that track with erode. It was done right. The only tracks I've had major complaints about this year have been Glen Helen and Muddy Creek. I honestly believe if the erode finally got worked out and was doing what the track crew wants it to do, it would propel this game to another level once again.
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby Cody Darr » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:08 pm

Ddavis wrote:I'm sure if you ask the majority of racers who quit racing this year in particular probably wouldn't say erode is bad, but they'd probably agree along the lines of Fro that the tracks just aren't fun to ride when they're freeways.


I love the erode, I would race but I don't have the time to try and be competitive. So I cant justify spending 20 bones on something I'm not going to get any value out of, I would rather wait for the track release and just play on the servers with erode. As far as the test races, I just don't get on enough to check anymore. Not that me being there would be any help, lol I would probably just flop around like dolphin out of water :lol:
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby checkerz » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:25 pm

DBRider251 wrote:I don't come to the erode tests because I'm usually working, doing something already, or it's almost over when I hear about it.

So which is it, you are working, you have better things to do, or you didn't hear about it? Funny you can always find time to complain about it every week though.


I think the main problem with erode is that it's still a work in progress. If it was final and the track crew knew what to put into the files each week to make it flawless, it would be great. I don't think people would complain as much (crazy of me to believe) and people would know more of what to expect. But what happened was, they fully implemented it into the main series in the game without knowing how it was going to react to its fullest extent. I believe that was a mistake and probably pissed a good amount of people off. I think it would have been better to see another 2017-like series with some erode tests going on during the off days, but ya know. $.02.


How in the hell do you expect it to get to "flawless" without development? We aren't holding back some super duper magic secret sauce of awesomeness settings that we just have to snap our fingers and kiss our mothers to get... It requires development. Yea, GREAT IDEA to not use for the main series. We can't get a handful of people to show up in a server now when we're giving them early access to the tracks and an opportunity to practice, I'm sure they'll show up when it has nothing to do with the official series.

checkerz wrote:You have an argument to make if you want to say erode isn't ready for the premier racing series, but I'd argue that without it being used and developed there it would just continue to be a feature of the game that never gets touched.



I bitch and complain about it.

Yes, you definitely do.


Southwick was AMAZING. I loved that track with erode. It was done right.

Why do you think that was? The super magic sauce got taken out for the weekend? Or maybe we're learning and making improvements that could've been accelerated do to participation. But now, we're stopped...done...dead.


I honestly believe if the erode finally got worked out and was doing what the track crew wants it to do, it would propel this game to another level once again.

Hey, we agree on something at least!

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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby DBRider251 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:52 pm

checkerz wrote:
DBRider251 wrote:I don't come to the erode tests because I'm usually working, doing something already, or it's almost over when I hear about it.

So which is it, you are working, you have better things to do, or you didn't hear about it? Funny you can always find time to complain about it every week though.

It's hilarious that you think because I race on Sunday nights and write a couple posts about the race after that I have a free schedule to instantaneously join a server every time you have an erode test. Also, notice I said "or." Some nights I'm at work, some nights I have prior commitments, or some nights like Sunday where I'm racing during a test. You also have to look at it as its literally 30 minute motos, and some people don't have the time to run them completely.

I think the main problem with erode is that it's still a work in progress. If it was final and the track crew knew what to put into the files each week to make it flawless, it would be great. I don't think people would complain as much (crazy of me to believe) and people would know more of what to expect. But what happened was, they fully implemented it into the main series in the game without knowing how it was going to react to its fullest extent. I believe that was a mistake and probably pissed a good amount of people off. I think it would have been better to see another 2017-like series with some erode tests going on during the off days, but ya know. $.02.


How in the hell do you expect it to get to "flawless" without development? We aren't holding back some super duper magic secret sauce of awesomeness settings that we just have to snap our fingers and kiss our mothers to get... It requires development. Yea, GREAT IDEA to not use for the main series. We can't get a handful of people to show up in a server now when we're giving them early access to the tracks and an opportunity to practice, I'm sure they'll show up when it has nothing to do with the official series.

Please find where I said that I expected it to be flawless without development. I know it takes development, but honestly how developed was it before you just threw it into a series? You guys don't know how its going to react with 40 riders, and that's not your fault. Also, have you ever thought that some people don't show up because they aren't paying to race the series? Would you put time and effort into something that you get no benefit out of?

checkerz wrote:You have an argument to make if you want to say erode isn't ready for the premier racing series, but I'd argue that without it being used and developed there it would just continue to be a feature of the game that never gets touched.


Once again, you can develop it outside of the premier series. Just because people aren't joining now, doesn't mean they wouldn't join on a Tavella Bro's track that's free to play and free to race.

Southwick was AMAZING. I loved that track with erode. It was done right.

Why do you think that was? The super magic sauce got taken out for the weekend? Or maybe we're learning and making improvements that could've been accelerated do to participation. But now, we're stopped...done...dead.

So instead of testing how the track develops with 20 riders, you're just going to stop altogether. Put it on pause and wait until offseason. Give an incentive. Do something to increase participation, because getting pissy doesn't help.

I honestly believe if the erode finally got worked out and was doing what the track crew wants it to do, it would propel this game to another level once again.

Hey, we agree on something at least!
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby Yamaha285 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:32 pm

I think the main problem with erode is that it's still a work in progress. If it was final and the track crew knew what to put into the files each week to make it flawless, it would be great. I don't think people would complain as much (crazy of me to believe) and people would know more of what to expect. But what happened was, they fully implemented it into the main series in the game without knowing how it was going to react to its fullest extent. I believe that was a mistake and probably pissed a good amount of people off. I think it would have been better to see another 2017-like series with some erode tests going on during the off days, but ya know. $.02.


How in the hell do you expect it to get to "flawless" without development? We aren't holding back some super duper magic secret sauce of awesomeness settings that we just have to snap our fingers and kiss our mothers to get... It requires development. Yea, GREAT IDEA to not use for the main series. We can't get a handful of people to show up in a server now when we're giving them early access to the tracks and an opportunity to practice, I'm sure they'll show up when it has nothing to do with the official series.

Please find where I said that I expected it to be flawless without development. I know it takes development, but honestly how developed was it before you just threw it into a series? You guys don't know how its going to react with 40 riders, and that's not your fault. Also, have you ever thought that some people don't show up because they aren't paying to race the series? Would you put time and effort into something that you get no benefit out of?

Dude listen to yourself, All he does for this game and community is put a ton of time and effort in so we have everything we have today and gets zero in return for it except replies like this.

checkerz wrote:You have an argument to make if you want to say erode isn't ready for the premier racing series, but I'd argue that without it being used and developed there it would just continue to be a feature of the game that never gets touched.


Once again, you can develop it outside of the premier series. Just because people aren't joining now, doesn't mean they wouldn't join on a Tavella Bro's track that's free to play and free to race.

Free should have nothing to do with it. Its free to test erode. Paying 20 bucks to race a series is nothing considering people spend that daily in content on other games.

Southwick was AMAZING. I loved that track with erode. It was done right.

Why do you think that was? The super magic sauce got taken out for the weekend? Or maybe we're learning and making improvements that could've been accelerated do to participation. But now, we're stopped...done...dead.

So instead of testing how the track develops with 20 riders, you're just going to stop altogether. Put it on pause and wait until offseason. Give an incentive. Do something to increase participation, because getting pissy doesn't help.

What else does he need to do? Had out prizes and hand jobs to keep all the millennial's happy because its so hard in life...The man is asking for a full gate to show up so he can develop something further. Its like you telling fortnite there free beta sucks and not to release it until its ready. One its free and two how are they going to develop it?
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Re: Why dont you guys do erode tests?

Postby Ddavis » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:38 pm

Is MX Simulator really dying if you look at the numbers?

Total Sign Ups (Pro)

2012
Round 1 - 53 (450) 88 (250)
Round 6 - 70 (450) 78 (250)

2013
Round 1 - 53 (450) 69 (250)
Round 6 - 50 (450) 47 (250)

2014
Round 1 - 62 (450) 199 (250)
Round 6 - 45 (450) 95 (250)

2015
Round 1 - 60 (450) 210 (250)
Round 6 - 51 (450) 98 (250)

2016
Round 1 - 71 (450) 82 (250)
Round 6 - 55 (450) 67 (250)

2017 (Pay to race)
Round 1 - 56 (450) 63 (250)
Round 6 - 50 (450) 64 (250)

2018 (Pay to race + erode)
Round 1 - 75 (450) 60 (250)
Round 6 - 51 (450) 48 (250)

The 450 sign ups in 2018 started out higher than ever in the 450 class, and remains consistent with previous years. As for 250s, sign ups have gradually dropped. Perhaps newer players have lost interest in the series? and returning riders continue to show up for 450 class events since they're later in the evening and people get older and maybe can't get home in time for 250s?

Total Sign Ups (Am)

2013
Round 1 - 155 (450) 104 (250)
Round 6 - 129 (450) 81 (250)

2014
Round 1 - 77 (450) 41 (250)
Round 6 - 59 (450) 39 (250)

2015
Round 1 - 89 (450) 62 (250)
Round 6 - 68 (450) 53 (250)

2016
Round 1 - 47 (450) 75 (250)
Round 6 - 40 (450) 48 (250)

2017
(Pay to race)
Round 1 - 47 (450) 61 (250)
Round 6 - 27 (450) 43 (250)

2018 (Pay to race + erode)
Round 1 - 67 (450) 81 (250)
Round 6 - 69 (450) 64 (250)

450 class is consistent with previous years, and way higher than last year, same can be said for 250s.

There was a huge spike in 2014/2015, but you can't expect a game like this to keep those numbers year in-year out. What do you guys think is the answer to ever getting this game back to that point? or is the game never going to hit that peak again? Free events? More local races? No erode?

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