erode sucks

Post anything about MX Simulator here. Please. I'm begging you.
User avatar
Jaruro38
Posts: 655
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:09 am
Location: Madrid (Spain)

Re: erode sucks

Postby Jaruro38 » Fri May 08, 2020 6:43 pm

I think a pre-rough track and a very low erode setting would be the best option, because that way there would be more lines sooner and smoother.

User avatar
ColtonD719
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:15 am
Team: Privateer
Location: Oregon
Contact:

Re: erode sucks

Postby ColtonD719 » Fri May 08, 2020 9:55 pm

jlv wrote:
celtex wrote:
Jakob Hubbard wrote:Hi Tanner, I really don't like this post! It's very offensive to not only the game developer but the organization rF. You should think about what you post before you post this type of thing!

+1 fax

I mean. Tanner isn’t wrong. The only thing that is bad about erode is it’s kinda sharp not smooth like how it would be in reflex for example we’re the suspension isn’t bounding around in turns

I wanted something that would be like I experienced in real life - the main line getting rougher and rougher until it's so slow you have to move to different lines. This was obviously a terrible idea. I think Chris was pulling his hair out trying to find settings to make it *not* do that. What people want is smooth ruts where it gets faster and faster as the ruts get deeper. There's no denying it, I misread what people wanted out of track deformation horribly.

Erode certainly isn't perfect (visibility being #1 issue, IMO), but it the game is so much better with it than without. Motocross without terrain deformation is stale and lifeless.

One of the primary goals in track design is raceability, and a big part of that is avoiding a singular "main line." There should be multiple competitive lines wherever possible, meaning more opportunities to pass. Motocross racing isn't about pinpoint precision, it is about adaptation, reading the terrain and the competition and using the entire track to your advantage. Ideally, terrain deformation should support this by presenting the player with a fluidly evolving environment, allowing the development of multiple lines, and encouraging creative use of the track.

Having lines deteriorate as they get overused is a good thing. But on the other hand, it is equally important that new lines be able to spring up and provide a competitive alternative. I can't speak for Chris, but one of the things we have struggled with is that by the time a line in the game deteriorates enough to look elsewhere, it has swallowed up so much of the track that other lines aren't really viable (i.e. the long sweeping ruts on entrances to corners that led to the front/lateral scale settings). The challenging visibility of newly developing ruts also discourages the use of lines outside the clearly visible main line(s).

That said, I still think the current erode system is miles ahead of anything else I've experienced (though Reflex and newer games are better in the visual aspect). I also agree that, without some carryover between motos, prebuilt rough is essential. IRL, by the time the first moto starts the track has had plenty of time to develop through practice/qualifying/etc. Unless you are able to simulate a full race day with practice, erode carrying over from one race to the next, and selective track grooming, it's simply unrealistic to expect a perfectly flat track to turn into a beat-up, multi lined national over the course of one moto. That pre-built takes care though, as the track builder must anticipate how players will use the track and how erode will play into it.

VUSTTOS
Posts: 809
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:02 am
Team: Spanish MX Gamers
Location: GPS not working

Re: erode sucks

Postby VUSTTOS » Fri May 08, 2020 10:52 pm

Yep game is better with erode. It actually makes the racing better, not just one lined as all the racing was until 2017. Also, thanks to erode the visual quality of the game has improved as now we can race in tracks with better res and detailed textured. Also, you little kids dont know how bad the fps drops were back then when there was no erode. Basically you could easily go from 125fps to 60 fps even tho being able to run Black Ops 2 in ultra. Game is better with erode because now we get constant 125 fps without needing to play in track with objects disabled. Not to mention that thanks to erode, there's more people playing the game now. And as pictures talks better than words, here you have a few. Don't dare to say i'm laying! : ) Also, forgot to say that back then, Haggvist, Rafagas or Chex tracks were really bad, they would let you rail corners and ruts in 5th wide open. The bumps they were used to make were used as a supercross triple. Now with erode, the track quality has increased and so on the realism as now you have to break, and don't just 5th wide open.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Wahlamt
Posts: 7632
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:15 pm
Team: MLG Compton
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: erode sucks

Postby Wahlamt » Fri May 08, 2020 10:55 pm

With how the tracks have changed since 2016 where it feels like everything is supposed to be big and wide open..people just want a big rut to ride forever in.

It would have been really really interesting to see how this would have been received in 2013 with Hagg's GP's. If people would only accept that the lines go bad and make new ones, it'd be easier. That or if the tracks would carry over from one race to another. Would it be possible to have a terrain2.png and terrain2.hf that is subtracting/adding (png) and terrain.hf if it needs adjustment in it's height? Then the admin could do /saveerodestate and /loaderodestate before the races ends/starts. Everyone would just have to download 2 files really, along with shading?

User avatar
Wahlamt
Posts: 7632
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:15 pm
Team: MLG Compton
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: erode sucks

Postby Wahlamt » Fri May 08, 2020 10:59 pm

VUSTTOS wrote:Also, forgot to say that back then, Haggvist, Rafagas or Chex tracks were really bad, they would let you rail corners and ruts in 5th wide open. The bumps they were used to make were used as a supercross triple.

Where has Haggqvist or Rafagas done that? Ever raced the 2013 GP's? When that started was 2016 (or 2017?) Hangtown if you ask me. That season took large ruts to another level, if you ask me. Most people seemed to like it, that's why I guess it stuck.

VUSTTOS
Posts: 809
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:02 am
Team: Spanish MX Gamers
Location: GPS not working

Re: erode sucks

Postby VUSTTOS » Fri May 08, 2020 11:02 pm

I know there are different opinions and I respect them all but I trully think erode was a step back. The overal experience is worse so I't hard to fix now even tho the cummunity has tried a lot of different settings -from no erode, to little premade + erode, lot of premade + little erode- and so many more but still 3 years later and from my point of view it's something that needs a whole takeover. I feel bad for the community as there's a lot of talented people capable of doing amazing stuff but erode (bad optimization) is stepping them back. -alone with other things-. I wish I had an asnwer to make erode better but for now, no one does, or seems to.
Image

VUSTTOS
Posts: 809
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:02 am
Team: Spanish MX Gamers
Location: GPS not working

Re: erode sucks

Postby VUSTTOS » Fri May 08, 2020 11:04 pm

Wahlamt wrote:Where has Haggqvist or Rafagas done that? Ever raced the 2013 GP's? When that started was 2016 (or 2017?) Hangtown if you ask me. That season took large ruts to another level, if you ask me. Most people seemed to like it, that's why I guess it stuck.

irony
Image

User avatar
Ddavis
Posts: 17765
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:02 am
Location: California
Contact:

Re: erode sucks

Postby Ddavis » Fri May 08, 2020 11:18 pm

I've enjoyed racing outdoors and finding lines outside/inside of the main lines and using that to make up time/make passes late in the race.

but I'm not a fan of the current erode on this game being used in sx, if that makes any sense..
Image

VUSTTOS
Posts: 809
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:02 am
Team: Spanish MX Gamers
Location: GPS not working

Re: erode sucks

Postby VUSTTOS » Fri May 08, 2020 11:35 pm

Terrain deformation has to be one of the hardest thing to develop in a motocross game. There hasn't been a game with a good one yet. Reflex was amazing for what it was back then. About Sim, gotta appreciate jlv for trying to make a more realistic one.
Image

Bubba40
Posts: 547
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:30 am
Team: Kyb/Enzo

Re: erode sucks

Postby Bubba40 » Sat May 09, 2020 12:45 am

Off-topic little bit but I feel that erode has not made any progress or changed in supercross since 2018. I know content creators are working very hard to change and progress erode but it just feels broken with games physics, like how are supposed to change lines when people run a dab 60 and they can just lean it over and hit 25-40 mph around a corner no matter how rough or small corner gets creating a giant one line track. This is just for supercross but it was the worse experience racing with the playdough version, no stadium, one line track with random kickers that you could not see, ruts that were also super hard to see. I'm just not a fan of how one line erode tracks are and how you do not have to change lines. I think non erode had more line choices for passing for sx.
Image

Haberfield24
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:43 pm

Re: erode sucks

Postby Haberfield24 » Sat May 09, 2020 1:06 am

jlv wrote:I wanted something that would be like I experienced in real life - the main line getting rougher and rougher until it's so slow you have to move to different lines. This was obviously a terrible idea. I think Chris was pulling his hair out trying to find settings to make it *not* do that. What people want is smooth ruts where it gets faster and faster as the ruts get deeper. There's no denying it, I misread what people wanted out of track deformation horribly.


This is literally my dream, pre eroded tracks with multiple fast lines we can enjoy even in single player. No erode in qualifying and everyone has the same fast lap track from lap 1.

If you check any results page from a real life GP their fast laps are done early in the race. They don’t go out on a flat track with no ruts or berms.

Typically IRL the inside is the fastest (unless there’s a big jump). Once that gets beat up people filter out. Imo sim should be the same. The inside gets chatter? Risk a fall off taking the sketchy line, if not move out a rut like 20 other guys are also doing until that gets beat up.

Southwick 2019 was a prime example of bad erode imo, I want to see crazy kickers and holes forming where we land, not walls in every turn so Haley can set the lap record on the final lap of the Moto with a bunch of mistakes.

User avatar
motokid499
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:25 am
Team: Premium MotoSpodes
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: erode sucks

Postby motokid499 » Sat May 09, 2020 1:23 am

Erode ruts are way too big and cupped out but im not sure how wide the wheel models are. erode slows you down because of the unridable chatter, if it wasnt for the chatter then erode would make everyone way fuckin faster with huge ass cuped out ruts. If erode could develope over time to create a result similar to the 2013 gp's id be so stoked on it. Maybe like a realtime smoothing on the ground thats being eroded? i have no clue but its just feels wrong.
Tanner Rogers

User avatar
Hi Im Skyqe
Posts: 2966
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:52 pm
Team: wat

Re: erode sucks

Postby Hi Im Skyqe » Sat May 09, 2020 1:34 am

Bubba40 wrote:Off-topic little bit but I feel that erode has not made any progress or changed in supercross since 2018. I know content creators are working very hard to change and progress erode but it just feels broken with games physics, like how are supposed to change lines when people run a dab 60 and they can just lean it over and hit 25-40 mph around a corner no matter how rough or small corner gets creating a giant one line track. This is just for supercross but it was the worse experience racing with the playdough version, no stadium, one line track with random kickers that you could not see, ruts that were also super hard to see. I'm just not a fan of how one line erode tracks are and how you do not have to change lines. I think non erode had more line choices for passing for sx.


2020 450 SX was won on 20 dab speed.

There were changes made in 2019 to add the corner transition setting having ruts develop in the last half of the berm instead of the whole berm. Watch 2018 SX then watch 2019, there were changes through the year.

skyzen
Posts: 445
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:35 pm
Team: IZI Racing

Re: erode sucks

Postby skyzen » Sat May 09, 2020 3:17 am

Last few round was good but honestly erode was so shit last year, especially in national , not even funny to ride a choppy 10 meter ruts/bumbs with the track changing every lap with some kickerz coming everywhere. I remember iron man , going to flat track 0 ruts first lap to completly destroy after 4 lap . Running best lap on lap 3 to 15second slower last lap , there is nothing realistic on that. We can't change anything as long as the texture will remains stone
1st 2014 Motosport Outdoor Nationals presented by One Industries
1st 2018 Race Tech North American Nationals
1st 2018 MotoOption Pro Supercross
1st 2019 MotoOption Pro National

User avatar
ROSE822
Posts: 1425
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:41 pm
Team: Hidden Design
Location: United Kingdom

Re: erode sucks

Postby ROSE822 » Sat May 09, 2020 2:47 pm

2016/17 was the best year for racing tbf
Image


Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests