tileinfo info

User avatar
DPGuitarman
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:22 pm
Team: TM Factory-Racing
Location: Texas

Re: tileinfo info

Postby DPGuitarman » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:59 am

I was using the "Software" setting. I changed it to "Hardware/Direct" and now they display correctly.

Thank you!

ShackAttack12
Posts: 3081
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 1:51 am
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: tileinfo info

Postby ShackAttack12 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:17 pm

I'd like to discuss traction in more detail since there seems to be a huge bias towards supermoto style traction in MXS. Or maybe someone can prove to me that a 1.5 coefficient of friction is actually accurate for a motocross tire on dirt?

The traction from 2012 Supercross actually isn't that slick, settings wise. The roll resistance is much less than more modern traction, which actually promotes less WFO style of riding but allows the bike to carry more speed (is that really a bad thing?).

Code: Select all

2012 Supercross - A1 Traction
friction 1.0 1.0
friction 1.0 32.0
friction 1.5 64.0
roll_resist 5.0 15.0 10.0


This setting yields a 1.0 coefficient of friction up to 32ft/sec of rear tire slip, which is 21mph.
Then, the coefficient of friction increases linearly to 1.5 from 32ft/sec (21mph) up to 64ft/sec (~43mph) of slip.

I actually think this traction configuration is more than you'd see in real life. 1.5 coefficient of friction when the rear tire is rotating 43mph faster than the front? 1.2 CoF is the actual maximum of rubber on asphalt that i have seen in literature. Even considering a brand new motocross tire with knobbies digging into the dirt, you're telling me that a stationary motocross tire spinning 43mph on dirt has 25% more traction than rubber on asphalt?

Here's a diagram from a paper (READ THIS: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1 ... 014.985804) i was reading on road tire dynamics in various conditions. This paper is talking about braking performance, but the same principles should apply for acceleration performance. Notice that a rubber road tire on dry asphalt has a max CoF of 1.2 at around 15% tire slip (the slip ratio is essentially a percentage, ie .1 is 10%), after which it tapers off.
Image

And this makes sense when you watch slow motion drag videos.... you'll see the tires are actually slipping about 10-15% to obtain maximum traction:


I have been searching for some good data on offroad tire traction and it seems hard to come by (and if anyone can find some, please post it), probably because there are so many factors involved (terrain sheer, force, contact patch, etc).

I'd have to guess that on extremely hard dirt (i'm talking blue groove) the CoF for a motocross tire would have to be in the 0.7-0.8 range. On ideal terrain dirt with the perfect about of terrain sheer where your tire can bite in and with perfect treaded tires, i'd guess you would see something like 0.9 or so, but definitely nowhere near the 1.2 CoF that is rubber-to-asphalt. On wet/muddy terrain the CoF would probably be down in the 0.5-0.6 range.

Again, if i'm way off on this, convince me otherwise.
ShackAttack12

| 2010 Supercross Champ | 2011 Supercross Champ |

DJ99X wrote:Aka shack is right

ShackAttack12
Posts: 3081
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 1:51 am
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: tileinfo info

Postby ShackAttack12 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:31 pm

I posted that in the wrong spot. :oops:
ShackAttack12

| 2010 Supercross Champ | 2011 Supercross Champ |

DJ99X wrote:Aka shack is right

SPEED763
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:20 pm
Team: FlexMoto
Location: California, U.S.A.

Re: tileinfo info

Postby SPEED763 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:04 pm

Okay, I have ran into an issue with adding roost to my tileinfo file. When i originally made the map, I got the tile info from another track that I liked the feel from but, they did not have a roost setting. I got some roost files out of two other tracks, and with so i adjusted the tileinfo file.

e.g. roost texture=@mytrack/Tiles/roosta.png (.... rest of roost info)

so with this as the format, am I forgetting something, or is there a mistake in my coding?

reason for my question comes from this issue, at the begging of the tile info modification I got the terrain feel i wanted for my sand, dirt, mud, tiles. I proceeded to create the track. Now this is my first ever map build and with so, I am have used it to learn all the techniques for each aspect i.e. tileinfo, billboards, decals, etc... So not to tangent too far, i have finished all of the major aspects and have been fine combing. I remembered I didn't have roost, and so that led me to here. I've added the info needed for the roost but, when I ride the track its not displayed at all. The tileinfo file doesn't correct the issue like if you didn't have a png for the billboard and the file drops null to signify the link failure.

troubleshooting my own answer, i can only think of the color codes for the roost need to be changed... maybe, idk so here I am to ask.


thanks anyone who comes to help, and anyone who reads this... if you've posted things on here that have already helped me, thank you much!!!

dearnhardtfan7
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:05 am
Team: Privateer
Location: Trafford Alabama

Re: tileinfo info

Postby dearnhardtfan7 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:58 am

Have you checked that roost density is not set to "0"? Under advanced graphics there is a roost density slider that can be changed from 0-1000. I would start by checking there.
R.I.P. Jacob Nash #241
PSN-chrismri463
Image
xfire--cmarona463

SPEED763
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:20 pm
Team: FlexMoto
Location: California, U.S.A.

Re: tileinfo info

Postby SPEED763 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:38 am

dearnhardtfan7 wrote:Have you checked that roost density is not set to "0"? Under advanced graphics there is a roost density slider that can be changed from 0-1000. I would start by checking there.


Thanks man, if its any use you would not believe how bad i laughed at myself over this :P i feel i may have lost a point or two off my IQ lol

dearnhardtfan7
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:05 am
Team: Privateer
Location: Trafford Alabama

Re: tileinfo info

Postby dearnhardtfan7 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:58 am

Haha oh believe me I find little things like that all the time that make me wonder how I possibly could have overlooked it! Glad I could help
R.I.P. Jacob Nash #241
PSN-chrismri463
Image
xfire--cmarona463

SPEED763
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:20 pm
Team: FlexMoto
Location: California, U.S.A.

Re: tileinfo info

Postby SPEED763 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:40 pm

Right! Thanks anytime and way to make me feel normal, took the words right out of my mouth. Also, after I got the game I pillaged the forum for all the track making tips... from what I've found your one of the "dirty dozen" man. Like you, wheels, checkers, ddmx, storken, and the rest of the bunch are the go to guys for help. Based off of what I've found and how well its works, let alone now getting to chat directly man "I'm not worthy!' Stay humble bro.

If its worth mentioning I'm 90% done with my first build. Granted its asymmetrically scattered as the placement of the lanes i did not think out to well (some right on the map border :roll: ) but, my purpose was to get the hang of building because I liked that more then the racing side on here. Which is odd i race in life too so, anyway I think i'll put it up today. I think its ripe for some beta testing by those good at riding and building if you're interested. I fooled around with my own scale, after reading up on jlvs, rfs, and checkers, commonly used scales. Based on my knowledge of the ama track from racing i decided to originate my own scale. Its worth a shot lol

Thanks Again and keep on keepin' on

dearnhardtfan7
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:05 am
Team: Privateer
Location: Trafford Alabama

Re: tileinfo info

Postby dearnhardtfan7 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:28 pm

Hey that really means alot! I'll shoot you a pm to keep from hijacking this too much haha
R.I.P. Jacob Nash #241
PSN-chrismri463
Image
xfire--cmarona463

barrington314
Posts: 6014
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:03 pm
Team: me
Location: Charleston, SC

Re: tileinfo info

Postby barrington314 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:09 am

jlv wrote:erode_displacement <distance>
This sets the displacement for the maximum erode force in feet. Default is 2.0.
What is the difference between this and radius?

erode_radius <radius>
This sets the radius of the eroded area in feet. Default is 4.0.
So in other words, default 4.0 means that the bike is causing 4 feet of erode in every direction from the wheels?
Image



Questions in the quote plus:
-I ran some laps with erode radius on 2.0 and really like the size of the ruts. However, they are extremely choppy. Is raising the radius the only option to smooth them out?

-Do you think that running brakes on antilock will affect how braking bumps form? (ie. be less noticeable)

-Does the friction and roll resistance settings change how an erode setting will work? Like will we need to find a happy dirt erode setting and a happy sand erode type setting?

barrington314
Posts: 6014
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:03 pm
Team: me
Location: Charleston, SC

Re: tileinfo info

Postby barrington314 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:36 am

barrington314 wrote:-I ran some laps with erode radius on 2.0 and really like the size of the ruts. However, they are extremely choppy. Is raising the radius the only option to smooth them out?


I should also say that I was using erode 20.0. So maybe in the more realistic setting of 1.0 it wouldn't get as choppy?

jlv
Site Admin
Posts: 12269
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:39 am
Team: No Frills Racing
Contact:

Re: tileinfo info

Postby jlv » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:03 am

My guess is lower erode settings should be smoother since it's averaging more paths to reach the same depth.

Erode works by lowering the ground under the contact patch, then raising it by the same amount displaced by the force vector of the contact patch. With a 4 foot radius it lowers/raises the ground the same way a 4 foot radius, focus 0 brush in the editor would. The displacement setting sets the maximum distance between the lower/raise points. Less displacement should make it smoother but slower to develop.

You definitely want to lower the displacement when you lower the radius. I wouldn't go over half the radius. In hindsight I should have made the displacement a percentage of the radius instead of an absolute value.

I'm not sure if it's better to use more depth / less displacement or vice versa. It's something that needs some experimentation. I just used numbers that seemed reasonable for defaults. They could be way off what's ideal.

Anything that changes the amount of force the tires are putting into the ground will affect the erosion. So antilock, friction and roll resistance will all affect it.
Josh Vanderhoof
Sole Proprietor
jlv@mxsimulator.com
If you email, put "MX Simulator" in the subject to make sure it gets through my spam filter.

User avatar
ColtonD719
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:15 am
Team: Privateer
Location: California
Contact:

Re: tileinfo info

Postby ColtonD719 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:15 am

I know it's possible to make custom ones, but Is there a list somewhere of the roost textures already available in game? I.e. splash.png, loam_dryscatter16x16.png, etc.

Thanks!
Colton, Track Creator

Released MXS Tracks

jlv
Site Admin
Posts: 12269
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:39 am
Team: No Frills Racing
Contact:

Re: tileinfo info

Postby jlv » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:32 am

They're all just reused terrain textures. Here's my last Daytona tileinfo. Looks like I used grassthin16x16.png for the roost on the grass.

friction 1.0 1.0
friction 1.0 32.0
friction 1.5 64.0
roll_resist 5.0 15.0 10.0
texture @dirt.ppm
roost texture=@splash.png grow=1.5 slow_angle=0.5 drag=1.0 drag=0 size=1.0 r=79 g=64 b=34 fade_a=0
addtile

friction 1.00 0.25
friction 0.50 1.5
friction 0.50 3.0
friction 1.00 4.5
friction 1.50 64.0
roll_resist 5.0 75.0 10.0
roll_resist 5.0 50.0 50.0
texture @sand.ppm
roost texture=@splash.png grow=1.5 slow_angle=1.0 drag=1.0 drag=0 size=1.0 r=52 g=39 b=28 fade_a=0
addtile

friction 0.125 4.0
friction 0.25 8.0
friction 1.0 16.0
roll_resist 15.0 20.0 25.0
roll_resist 25.0 75.0 50.0
texture @colors/maroon.png
roost texture=@splash.png grow=2.0 drag=0 size=1.0 r=45 g=25 b=16 fade_a=0
addtile

friction 1.0 1.0
roll_resist 5.0 25.0 10.0
roll_resist 5.0 50.0 50.0
texture @colors/green.png
roost texture=@splash.png count=4 grow=1.5 slow_angle=1.0 drag=1.0 drag=0 size=1.0 r=52 g=39 b=28 fade_a=0
roost texture=@grassthin16x16.png count=1 vscale=0.25 size=1.0
addtile

friction 0.125 4.0
friction 0.25 8.0
friction 1.0 16.0
roll_resist 5.0 15.0 10.0
roll_resist 5.0 15.0 25.0
roll_resist 50.0 150.0 50.0
texture @colors/aqua.png
roost texture=@splash.png drag=0 size=0.5 a=192
roost texture=@splash.png dig=0 a=192 fade_a=-128 drag=1 vscale=.5 size=.5 grow=5 count=10 randomize=10 splash=1
addtile

friction 1.0 1.0
roll_resist 5.0 15.0 10.0
texture @colors/gray.png
roost texture=@loam_dryscatter16x16.png slip_threshold=48.0 drag=16.0 count=1 size=1.0 grow=8.0 r=0 g=0 b=0 a=64 fade_a=-256
addtile
Josh Vanderhoof
Sole Proprietor
jlv@mxsimulator.com
If you email, put "MX Simulator" in the subject to make sure it gets through my spam filter.

User avatar
ColtonD719
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:15 am
Team: Privateer
Location: California
Contact:

Re: tileinfo info

Postby ColtonD719 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:00 am

Thanks, jlv!
Colton, Track Creator

Released MXS Tracks


Return to “Tutorials”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests