Custom Pivot Points

[hvpmvp]

I know this has been requested many times, but the ability to move the pivots to wherever you wanted would allow for much better proportioned models to work well in this game. I think most people would be completely fine if it was just a visual change as well, so that you can't make overpowered bikes etc.

[jlv]

Which pivots in particular? I wouldn't want to get too wild with it since it could cause instabilities in the physics.

[hvpmvp]

hand and foot placement mostly. Fork angle and wheelbase adjustment would be good too but maybe it's just visual not to mess with the physics. I can't imagine most bikes would need crazy big adjustments so keeping everything visual wouldn't lead to too much weird stuff?

[Andy_Hack]

The most crucial ones would be the foot pegs, their position is rather different from bike to bike, especially between steel frames and aluminum frames and they proved to be a bit of a challenge in the past. It wasn't impossible if you built the whole bike around the pivot points and if you settled for the rider to stand on it's heels or metatarsus, but still a bit of a pain to be perfectly honest.

the bars are honestly not that much of a problem in my opinion, i would always make new handlebars, preferably with very little sweep vertically and horizontally.

One thing i personally had a fair share of issues with was the missing triple clamp offset in MXSim, most bikes these days run between 22-25mm offset. While you can put both forks tubes in a slightly more forward position, it's difficult as the front wheel pivot point is also fixed and already at a common distance relative to the fork tubes and fork lugs. It's assume it's be a very big deal to change that as it also effects several other pivot points and since it's the most important pivot point on the bike.

I think foot peg pivot points would be a huge deal i.o. to make life easier for modelers.

[jlv]

The footpegs would actually be the easiest part to move.

[michael30]

Reason I stopped progress on my model since I started with the purpose to try to get the most accurate bike possible to use in game and for renders. Didn't start the model with the pivot points so stuff doesn't line up. Think it might be an easy fix for you JLV but not sure how much time would actually go into it. Mostly just have problems with the Austrian bikes and most Japanese bikes all line up close enough not to worry about it.

To show how the real life bike would line up next to the MXS pivot points. If there would be a way to link the main points of the bike so the rider would snap on and collide with it I think that would mostly fix it already. Fork angle is a small issue if you use it how it is like in the pictures.

[Andy_Hack]

The footpegs would actually be the easiest part to move.

That's good news!

You can already get it close with some moving and scaling and there are a couple things you can use to your advantage like:
- rear axle blocks, you can move them in and out to get the swingarm spot on.
- moving the fork tubes in the triple clamps also results in a longer or shorter wheel base aswell.
- handlebars bend
- bar clamps

The forks need to be in that specific angle, yours are too far off, the fork guards would end up inside the upper fork tubes when the forks are compressed. I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but you'd have to change your head tube/steering angle and forks i.o. to make it look right in game.
In the end no one will notice that the steering angle is slightly off. I usually started with the Pivot Points 3D model, imported the pictures and lined them up with the pivot points as good as i could. That was my starting point, it's not perfect, but it is what it is.
The model looks great by the way! I'd also like to see the low poly of that

[jlv]

It'd be pretty difficult do move the pivot points for every model. The foot position wouldn't be too bad though since that's just inverse kinematics. The other pivots are actual joints.

[michael30]

Started the model as purpose just for a highpoly but then since we still ran Panini back then I thought it could be used for MXS as well. But as you see it never got there because if you want to have a model in MXS you have to just make it from the pivot points and not care if the model is accurate to the real life bike which wasn't my original plan.

Would be nice to be able to use the proper angles for everything, different bar bends so it doesn't all have to be so specific. Sounds like a hard task but don't think it would be impossible for you to do. Could potentially even add some animations to everything so we have moving parts.

[Andy_Hack]

Well you never get a bike 100% accurate from pictures alone, you'd either take lots of measurements or you 3D scan it. The focal length of cameras always distorts the actual object and when you base your model off of that, it's accurate to the picture, but not the real life object.
Even the steering angle can be off and in general just a few Millimeters of moving the forks up and down the triple clamps changes the rake angle of the whole motorcycle relative to the ground. That being said changing the 3D model in a few places won't make a big difference, especially when you're working off pictures.
I think The problem with changing the pivot points is that MX Simulator has complex physics based on real life physics that were built around the pivot points we know. Everything is possible, but if you change important pivot points, you're changing the way each bike behaves which indeed brings it closer to real life, but people would exploit it or would totally mess up bikes. In the end it's about thinking a step ahead of what's good for the game in general and the experience - keeping it all around the existing pivot points ensures a level playing field. (Please correct me if i'm wrong)
In my humble opinion having the option to change the foot pegs position would be a huge deal. Maybe a line of code in the model file with X,Y, Z coordinates would be enough, but jlv knows best how to do it.