Terrain Feel and Factors

[attacker5]

Hello,
So this might of been suggested before but I have never made a suggestion so might as well.

Right now if I am not mistaken, the terrain itself (that is what the bike is riding on) is 100% solid. There is no movement, deformation or any of that. I understand physically deforming the terrain is an issue, coding wise and bandwidth wise to ensure everyone is on the same terrain. But there is my suggestion and issue.

I saw ages ago in some snapshot that JLV posted he made adjustments in how the temperature of the sir in the forks affect the way it performs, or something like that, anyhow, it was something very detailed. But it got me thinking, why put so much effort into the little things of suspension when one very big factor is being missed, this being the bike itself sinking into the ground. When one comes around a turn, the g force on the bike multiplies, so the weight becomes more, meaning the bike will tend to "sink" into the burm or ground, with a depth dependent on the type of ground.

The solution could be to have each tile info, have a coefficient of how solid the collision is on it. I know collision "solidness" can be changed such as the bales often are on sx. I just think having the bike actually be able to sink into the ground without physically deforming it, will greatly improve the realism in how the rider handles bumps, and burms. With this, the rider could effectively blow out a burm, basically go through it, without having to send any server data, or any real computational data.

Also, it wont make riding more difficult, I personally think it will make it easier, because the faster you hit a bump the less harsh it would be, just like real life if you were to hit a soft sand bump, and it will add a much better dynamic to the riding style. I am sure there will be a ton of coding issues involved, but I personally believe that this is somewhat of a solution to a very big problem.

I have done my own experiments with this is a different game engine and have found that collision alteration could indeed have the desired effect, somewhat of a cheap mans way, but short of full terrain deformation, I think its a step in the right direction. Also in my tests, yes, it wasn't with ODE, so that might be more difficult, I don't know, but the coding for my part wasn't that complicated, although my game engine might support it better, again, I don't know.

Hopefully that all makes sense.
Cheers
Ride On!

[toonys66]

awesome idea!! indeed that could be great!! on sand tracks, berms, ruts... hope JLV can figure out something nice with this idea!

[mbork-1]

Agree,if we now using ingame erode it still doesnt feels right,
you go in rut but its hard like beton,and ground moves only after bike goes over it

[DJ99X]

http://forum.mxsimulator.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15560

[cpt_Slow]

Mxsim 2020?

http://www.bitvalve.org/~dholz/soil/Soi ... proach.pdf

I'm sure we could live with having the on-track parts being the only active areas. I would imagine it's somewhat easier to simulate a nice and predictable dozer blade as opposed to a motocross tyre, which is why I'll allow 7 years. Also my PC might be able to handle it in real-time by then.

[jlv]

I saw ages ago in some snapshot that JLV posted he made adjustments in how the temperature of the sir in the forks affect the way it performs, or something like that, anyhow, it was something very detailed. But it got me thinking, why put so much effort into the little things of suspension when one very big factor is being missed, this being the bike itself sinking into the ground. When one comes around a turn, the g force on the bike multiplies, so the weight becomes more, meaning the bike will tend to "sink" into the burm or ground, with a depth dependent on the type of ground.

Adding the heat capacity ratio to the forks wasn't very complex at all. "pressure^1.4" instead of "pressure".

[MX181]

I saw ages ago in some snapshot that JLV posted he made adjustments in how the temperature of the sir in the forks affect the way it performs, or something like that, anyhow, it was something very detailed. But it got me thinking, why put so much effort into the little things of suspension when one very big factor is being missed, this being the bike itself sinking into the ground. When one comes around a turn, the g force on the bike multiplies, so the weight becomes more, meaning the bike will tend to "sink" into the burm or ground, with a depth dependent on the type of ground.

Adding the heat capacity ratio to the forks wasn't very complex at all. "pressure^1.4" instead of "pressure".

This would be perfect jlv, and then the need for terrain deformation wouldn't have to be made

[attacker5]

Interesting...
Not dreading on here, just brain storming, maybe we come up with a solution together.

I thought of this, mind my bad drawings, but hopefully it gives the idea of running the norms from the regular point, but have the rest of the physics model operate from the countersunk position.

[jlv]

The thing is, it's easy to look at it and guess the normal, but it's much harder to make a robust algorithm to handle it. In your example, you suggest using the previous position. But what if that was underground too? If you always used that your normals would be inverted as you leave the ground. There are lots of corner cases to consider in collision code and letting objects have deep intersections makes it way harder.

[mxchild]

could we see a JLV and Attacker team working on the better good of this game?

[attacker5]

I understand. I am going to research it thoroughly, thanks for the consideration and time.
Cheers

[WellsMX524]

Seeing threads like this really give me hope for this community, and I mean that.

[g-dub]

this is awesome. i'd happily pay for a huge update on this game. almost a mx sim 2. i dont think im the only one who feels like that too. very encouraging

[Magnus42]

this is awesome. i'd happily pay for a huge update on this game. almost a mx sim 2. i dont think im the only one who feels like that too. very encouraging

For sure, and i like how the community is going the right way!

[Kording]

Just a little video that shows it is possible !
I would love to see this in our sim. It looks so great