Directed at Jlv.

[stocksy129]

Calling you out, ha.
Now, i have been playing for a fair few years now (6 years) i'm not the fastest or best rider/player i understand but mate the game needs a re-vamp on the physics side, the way the bike reacts to different situations in some circumstances is just plain horrible. After playing for so long, i feel as though i should be able to at least run 5 laps at a decent pace with little to no mistakes which is possible but not as often as it should be with so many hours under the belt. The reactions are just so randomized. For me it feels as though there is no weight on the bike? As though the rider is just stuck on there and is made of foam, perhaps giving the bike more downforce from the rider? I don't know you're the genius.

ex - Coming into turns front wheel locking sending you over the bars, rear end so unstable that it bounces from side to side with no control, front wheel randomly washing out with no warning or feel for it at all.
- Landing jumps, can't even count the numerous times you land off a jump fine and dandy then fucking BAM you're down, no reason at all the wheels feel as though they're on ice at times the bike just washes from under you.

These things are just starting to bug me finally after all these years and i needed to vent. I'm not sure if it's the suspension reacting wrong that when it reaches a certain travel that it then loses almost all traction? Or that the tyres reactions to the surface just isn't right there yet. Despite the different tile maps it still feels the same as riding on a hardpack track that has been watered by some stupid marshal that doesn't know how slippery shit gets when it's hard, shiny and wet (insert sex joke here)



Just ranting mate fucking keep having bullshit crashes for no reason and it's getting on my nerve. Yes you're working on the models or what ever but is this on your list to look at just wondering mate, cheers.

[tyskorn]

I think most of what you're experiencing is due to the fact that the rider doesn't control the bike as you do in real life. The rider doesn't use his legs to straighten the bike out when it starts to swap, so it's just the bike swapping on its own. It would be extremely hard to replicate the movements and motions of a real rider, and I think jlv has said that before. It's nothing wrong with the current physics I think; it's just the lack of physics for the rider.

[stocksy129]

that's understandable however when coming into a turn for example if you're leaning back in real life you're putting weight to the back wheel keeping it reasonably straight and weighing it down from bouncing all over the shot. In-game when leaning back into a corner it doesn't weigh the back end of the bike down it almost makes it more unstable as the front wheel becomes almost weightless. For me in-game it's as though you're weightless almost close to zero-g to a certain extent that is.

I know it would be extremely hard to replicate "the movements and motions of a real rider" i agree completely but i think maybe if you had more downforce on the bike it would give the effect that you were actually riding the track not on top of it.

[stocksy129]

For me to come into a 'rough' corner on Sim the way i get through the roughness is either by holding the rear brakes and continuing to accelerate which causes the rear shock to compress and stopping the bike from bouncing around or i tap lean back and tap the throttle at each bump to almost bounce over the 'braking bumps'

[Phathry25]

Stocksy is all about that Jupiter gravity. LOL.

[tyskorn]

So you're saying there should be more force from the rider? I'm pretty sure there is some already, but I think it's only in the center of the rider, so like you explained if you lean back the force applied by the rider isn't up front anymore. However, I think I do remember jlv saying when you are standing there is a constant force applied where the hands are. I think a little more force from the rider could possibly help, but I think a way to try and help without any change to the game is to try lowering your Rider Mass Distribution and see if it helps any.

[yzmxer608]

A lot of the swapping and washing out is not having actual dirt, we're riding a shaped flat surface with different friction settings, we're not actually digging into and banking off of deformable dirt.

[stocksy129]

Stocksy is all about that Jupiter gravity. LOL.

Just Googled this so i would understand what you mean, fuck yeah man would be sick

So you're saying there should be more force from the rider? I'm pretty sure there is some already, but I think it's only in the center of the rider, so like you explained if you lean back the force applied by the rider isn't up front anymore. However, I think I do remember jlv saying when you are standing there is a constant force applied where the hands are. I think a little more force from the rider could possibly help, but I think a way to try and help without any change to the game is to try lowering your Rider Mass Distribution and see if it helps any.

I run my Rider Mass Distribution at o.36 which is reasonably low, i think a little more force from the rider could help a lot, also has it been explained how the weight of the bike works? Where is all the weight on the bike? It feels centered again perhaps if you had 3 different sections to the bike equaling different forces ie, forks, center of swing arm and say dead center of the bike it self and had the bike set at different forces/weights so the bike is more balanced? Not sure if that has explained what i mean properly or if that's how it works already

[stocksy129]

A lot of the swapping and washing out is not having actual dirt, we're riding a shaped flat surface with different friction settings, we're not actually digging into and banking off of deformable dirt.

Is there a way to replicate this? Understand it would be ballsy coding but has it been done for any other game?

[barrington314]

A lot of the swapping and washing out is not having actual dirt, we're riding a shaped flat surface with different friction settings, we're not actually digging into and banking off of deformable dirt.

Yup. Sand is the worst IMO.

Another thing that has been bugging me lately now that we are back on rough tracks is the way the bike seems to pick up some serious forces as you start to swap. What I mean is, you swap left, then right, then back left even harder and faster, then back right so hard and fast that you do a complete 180. Or bounce off a breaking bump so violently that you can back flip. This is what I think Stocksy means about the not enough weight comment. I think the best example of the "weightless effect" that happens the most is when bikes start bouncing and tumbling off of each other.

[stocksy129]

A lot of the swapping and washing out is not having actual dirt, we're riding a shaped flat surface with different friction settings, we're not actually digging into and banking off of deformable dirt.

Yup. Sand is the worst IMO.

Another thing that has been bugging me lately now that we are back on rough tracks is the way the bike seems to pick up some serious forces as you start to swap. What I mean is, you swap left, then right, then back left even harder and faster, then back right so hard and fast that you do a complete 180. Or bounce off a breaking bump so violently that you can back flip. This is what I think Stocksy means about the not enough weight comment. I think the best example of the "weightless effect" that happens the most is when bikes start bouncing and tumbling off of each other.

Yes, some one who understands. Hah Thank you for explaining it better than i cheers

[cpt_Slow]

I'm in a similar position really, but I just put it down to me sucking at video games. One thing I do to keep the enjoyment is just focus on a few tracks and you get a better feel for how the bike reacts to that traction. I do think a lot of the issues are somehow linked to traction, try riding MXSIM-Spain Training facility. It might be partially because it's fairly smooth and easy but the bike feels so planted and predictable all around the track. You can make mistakes and correct them easily, and riding another track on the back of this one feels like riding your aforementioned watered track. I think it' derived from one of Checkerz's tracks so not sure if it's his traction settings that are used, but they are excellent fun.

There are some issues with breaking bumps but I can't really complain as I've never taken the time to properly set up my suspension, and if I hit real life bumps at the speed I do in Sim with little consideration for suspension set-up, I imagine that would throw me off the bike as well (maybe not so flamboyantly though).

[stocksy129]

I'm in a similar position really, but I just put it down to me sucking at video games. One thing I do to keep the enjoyment is just focus on a few tracks and you get a better feel for how the bike reacts to that traction. I do think a lot of the issues are somehow linked to traction, try riding MXSIM-Spain Training facility. It might be partially because it's fairly smooth and easy but the bike feels so planted and predictable all around the track. You can make mistakes and correct them easily, and riding another track on the back of this one feels like riding your aforementioned watered track. I think it' derived from one of Checkerz's tracks so not sure if it's his traction settings that are used, but they are excellent fun.

There are some issues with breaking bumps but I can't really complain as I've never taken the time to properly set up my suspension, and if I hit real life bumps at the speed I do in Sim with little consideration for suspension set-up, I imagine that would throw me off the bike as well (maybe not so flamboyantly though).

Not to be harsh back but i have been playing for 6years as mentioned in the first post and i do know this. After 6 years i should, you would think at least you would be able to run motos a lot more consistent than what's possible, yes i can put a 30min moto together when i'm smoking meth and concentrating so hard my eyes are coming out of my head. But i'm talking about the inconsistencies of the bikes reactions, over the years i have learnt to read them a lot better and know how to counter act certain situations but there is still the faults there.

As for braking bumps, i have tried setting my suspension up in-game it helps yes but it still is not right, in real life obviously i don't go as fast as i do in game but i'm no slouch when setting my suspension setup yes it makes a massive difference but with out it done i can still ride and attack my corners not as hard as it doesn't turn as well or settle as well through the breaking bumps but it's still easy enough.

[cpt_Slow]

I was just advising how I keep it still fun after all these years, but then I have a lot of patience as I'm used to being useless at most games. I don't watch or participate in any online racing so I'm not certain, but I imagine the quick players are a lot more consistent than I can manage which suggests to me that it is possible, but beyond my own personal ability.
I do agree that there are some major quirks to the physics, I was suggesting with my post that maybe it was traction/ ground interaction related as yz said, since the bike feels much more stable on certain tracks. It's very difficult to tell exactly what's causing what without any physical feedback, or numerical data.

[jlv]

To a certain extent, no matter how well the bike handles you'll have to push hard enough that you're on the edge of control to compete at a high level. That doesn't mean it can't be improved though. If tightening the lock settings help kill the swaps I could make it use tighter settings when you're going through bumps. Something like the "land damping" settings only for steering lock.

Also if you're getting weird twitches and swaps it might be a sign you have some of your advanced stability settings too high. Some of that stuff will overcompensate badly if it's cranked.