Realistic Bike Mass and Geometry

[checkerz]

Also finding a happy medium between 250's being able to do the triple ins and 450s not being able to jump half the rhythm is probably pretty hard in sim.

Correct. And as the bikes get faster, tripling in or quading in or going 4 or 5 in the middle becomes easier. Yet, track size/scale can only be changed so much. We can go larger, but not only does spacing get bigger between jumps but so does the run-up into the jumps so it doesn't really change anything other than make it more unrealistic. We can go smaller, in spacing to reduce run-up and space to get a run between jumps, but then the distance needed to jump 4 or 5 is also smaller. We can go lower on height, but then you lose realism of SX feel and increase speed you can carry over a jump and reduce the amount of speed lost on landing allowing you to jump further at the middle/end of sections. You can go taller on height, but then you have a bigger launch ramp to jump further.

We didn't accidentally land on the scaling that we're using. It was a combination of realism of feel and rhythms as well as race-ability with 20 riders. Now, we're once again testing and trying things like we do every off season prior to building the replicas, but we have way more data and experience with this stuff than you can imagine and it absolutely becomes harder and harder everytime the bikes are made better and better.

So, I've pointed out (in my opinion) a huge negative to going to these real weights. The one positive is variation of bike feel. I wouldn't mind seeing that if it were instead scaled around the current weight of the in game bike and not dropping the weight of everything. I also find it a negative to give the bike that is already fastest also the lightest weight. If you're goal is more variation about what bike to choose, this goes completely against that.

Theres always the invisible walls where if you try to go to big you clip the wall and crash but i doubt thats what we'd want to see in rhythms

I agree that is not the way to go and should only be a last resort in very specific situations.

Playing with jump and berm shape and traction (both drag and slickness) are much better solutions and something we're currently exploring.

[yzmxer608]

Have you tried jlv's old SX traction on any of the new tracks? Not sure how the drag compares but his was a lot slicker than what's used now.

[mxsrider96]

Have you tried jlv's old SX traction on any of the new tracks? Not sure how the drag compares but his was a lot slicker than what's used now.

Everyone that I've ever talked to would rather kill themselves than use that traction again. Might be worth a try, but I feel like it'did result in more bitching than anything

[mxsrider96]

Have you tried jlv's old SX traction on any of the new tracks? Not sure how the drag compares but his was a lot slicker than what's used now.

Everyone that I've ever talked to would rather kill themselves than use that traction again. Might be worth a try, but I feel like it'd result in more bitching than anything

Stupid fucking phone

[checkerz]

Have you tried jlv's old SX traction on any of the new tracks? Not sure how the drag compares but his was a lot slicker than what's used now.

It's on the list - not to actually use but experiment with. I'm currently focused on jump shapes by them selves. Next up is traction and I'll try a bunch of different stuff.

It's tough because the sample size ends up pretty small. I put out a track as a test, get maybe 3 or 4 replies. But then if we actually choose something and actual SX starts, put out anything and there is 20 people lined up to bitch within the hour.

I have a few people who I value their opinions because they don't sugar coat, are honest, and also at the same point insightful with their feedback and between using those people and the experience of those on our rF staff; we make our best decision possible and try to ignore the line of complainers.

[Ezra]

Have you tried jlv's old SX traction on any of the new tracks? Not sure how the drag compares but his was a lot slicker than what's used now.

Everyone that I've ever talked to would rather kill themselves than use that traction again. Might be worth a try, but I feel like it'd result in more bitching than anything

Stupid fucking phone

I would rather ride JLV sx traction than what 2016 was, and im not alone there. It more seems like you and all of the 16 year old keyboard kings just throw a shit fit when they have to slow down for a corner, because they lack the skill and or brainpower to do so..

[mxsrider96]

John, you should watch the claims you make. Please show me where I ever complained about the traction that was used on any track. If you could, I might actually consider shopping at Versus PC

[onefoureight]

JLV traction is fine once you get used to it, but the general community will probably lose their insides if you were to go with JLV traction after 4 years of using other traction.

Nate, if you ever need another opinion on sx traction let me know.

[Ybroc28]

Nothing wrong with JLV traction, I don't think being able to go from 0 to 100% throttle on a 2016 450 in a corner and get full traction is 'realistic' as such, which is why in some ways I nearly prefer JLV traction just because of the added worry of traction which, lets be honest, is not a challenge on post-2013 tracks.

[M@xTizZz]

I'm saying the bikes honestly need all slowed down if we really want the game to progress.

i'm 100% agree with this, i would add maybe all bikes except 125 which is pretty realistic actually IMO

but yeah nerf all others, at least the 2 most used orange fighter jet

[onefoureight]

Nothing wrong with JLV traction, I don't think being able to go from 0 to 100% throttle on a 2016 450 in a corner and get full traction is 'realistic' as such, which is why in some ways I nearly prefer JLV traction just because of the added worry of traction which, lets be honest, is not a challenge on post-2013 tracks.

Telling you right now, once you learn how to ride JLV traction it's faster and less realistic than the current traction. You can go 100% throttle everywhere as long as your smooth with the delivery.

And trust me when I say I know this shit.

[AWood]

i dont think bikes are too fast in sim, even 450s. But its like on vital if you say that about real life and all the old guys will have a cow.

[motokid499]

Nothing wrong with JLV traction, I don't think being able to go from 0 to 100% throttle on a 2016 450 in a corner and get full traction is 'realistic' as such, which is why in some ways I nearly prefer JLV traction just because of the added worry of traction which, lets be honest, is not a challenge on post-2013 tracks.

Telling you right now, once you learn how to ride JLV traction it's faster and less realistic than the current traction. You can go 100% throttle everywhere as long as your smooth with the delivery.

And trust me when I say I know this shit.

I think that just comes with the fact that there is next to zero resistance with jlv traction so you're able to keep ridiculous amounts of momentum. jlv traction isnt perfect, but I like the slickness. I'm not sure how the traction in the game works, i've never played around with it. It seems like we need something slick like jlv traction, at the same time as it offering resistance.

It's not released, so most people won't know what I'm talking about, but the traction on the VPC compound is actually really really nice imo, its supposed to be sand traction but if you just back off the resistance a tad and make it slightly more slick it would probably feel really close to dirt if you match the traction with a dirt texture instead of a sand texture. I'll ask Chex for the actual traction

[ShackAttack12]

Let's take this traction talk to the tileinfo thread. The traction from 2012 Supercross actually isn't that slick, setting wise. I will agree with Ben that the roll resistance is much less than more modern traction, which actually promotes less WFO style of riding but allows the bike to carry more speed (is that really a bad thing?).

Code: Select all

2012 A1 Traction
friction 1.0 1.0
friction 1.0 32.0
friction 1.5 64.0
roll_resist 5.0 15.0 10.0

IMO, 1.5 coefficient of friction is way too high for a tire slipping at 64ft/sec (~43mph). That's like doing a burnout on dirt with a motocross tire and experiencing 25% higher friction than a rubber road tire on asphalt. Really?

[barrington314]

I'd race rF if it was like that but wider.

Build it wider and the corners will be faster. It'll completely change how the track rides.

It's also a little easier to make a custom track ride how you want it than it is when the track is built to spec.