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Re: Lighting and erode.

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:31 pm
by FlyinHigh
Would there be any way to make erode carry over into the next races? Then we could use some more starter ruts, and they just get a little deeper and rougher as the nights go on which would be more consistent for the riders, rather than guessing and having no idea how its going to form and learning as we go which is what causes so many to crash.

Re: Lighting and erode.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:03 am
by jlv
I'd be hard to make it automatic since the server barely knows anything about the track. I could possibly do something like let a client save and restore the track. Might be a bit slow sending that much data over UDP though.

It could be done fairly easily if the clients were required to stay connected for the entire time the track is eroding.

Re: Lighting and erode.

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:50 pm
by checkerz
jlv wrote:For the lighting, I could try some simple ambient self-occlusion when calculating the terrain vertex shading values. I'm in the middle of integrating the scripting engine right now and I'd like to get it wrapped up before I start tearing into anything else though.

Is this lighting update something we would be able to have before outdoors?

Went through a lot of testing/smashing my head into a wall with the kicker stuff in SX to ultimately just have to turn off erode on jumps for SX as the solution we thought we found was the jump shapes were not correct, but even with "correct" jump shapes the issue persisted. Understandable, it's part of development, but I'd like to avoid banging my head against the wall more fighting the lack of visibility of erode for outdoors and heading down the road of using erode for outdoors if it ultimately isn't going to work because you can't see it.

Unlike SX where the tracks were previously smooth, so no erode on the rhythms didn't really matter; it's a huge thing for outdoors, as either we have to build rough tracks or having erode working well and that changes the workload on terrain creation significantly.

I'm happy to continue to help testing and developing the settings side, and we're making progress, but the visual element is a pretty substantial road block right now.

Re: Lighting and erode.

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:56 pm
by SKlein
jlv wrote:I could possibly do something like let a client save and restore the track. Might be a bit slow sending that much data over UDP though.

It could be done fairly easily if the clients were required to stay connected for the entire time the track is eroding.

So if you drop network mid race will the client be able to pull back missed erode data on re-connection to the server, or is the person out of luck?

Re: Lighting and erode.

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:50 am
by jlv
checkerz wrote:
jlv wrote:For the lighting, I could try some simple ambient self-occlusion when calculating the terrain vertex shading values. I'm in the middle of integrating the scripting engine right now and I'd like to get it wrapped up before I start tearing into anything else though.

Is this lighting update something we would be able to have before outdoors?

Went through a lot of testing/smashing my head into a wall with the kicker stuff in SX to ultimately just have to turn off erode on jumps for SX as the solution we thought we found was the jump shapes were not correct, but even with "correct" jump shapes the issue persisted. Understandable, it's part of development, but I'd like to avoid banging my head against the wall more fighting the lack of visibility of erode for outdoors and heading down the road of using erode for outdoors if it ultimately isn't going to work because you can't see it.

Unlike SX where the tracks were previously smooth, so no erode on the rhythms didn't really matter; it's a huge thing for outdoors, as either we have to build rough tracks or having erode working well and that changes the workload on terrain creation significantly.

I'm happy to continue to help testing and developing the settings side, and we're making progress, but the visual element is a pretty substantial road block right now.

Probably not in a month for the self-occlusion. For the kicker thing, I was thinking it might help if I projected the force vector to the terrain before removing the Y component. I had ruled out that idea before but now I'm thinking it might actually be better that way. That should be an easy change to make. I just want to wrap up some stuff with the scripting integration first.

SKlein wrote:
jlv wrote:I could possibly do something like let a client save and restore the track. Might be a bit slow sending that much data over UDP though.

It could be done fairly easily if the clients were required to stay connected for the entire time the track is eroding.

So if you drop network mid race will the client be able to pull back missed erode data on re-connection to the server, or is the person out of luck?

They'd be out of luck.

Re: Lighting and erode.

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:02 am
by checkerz
jlv wrote:
checkerz wrote:
jlv wrote:For the lighting, I could try some simple ambient self-occlusion when calculating the terrain vertex shading values. I'm in the middle of integrating the scripting engine right now and I'd like to get it wrapped up before I start tearing into anything else though.

Is this lighting update something we would be able to have before outdoors?

Went through a lot of testing/smashing my head into a wall with the kicker stuff in SX to ultimately just have to turn off erode on jumps for SX as the solution we thought we found was the jump shapes were not correct, but even with "correct" jump shapes the issue persisted. Understandable, it's part of development, but I'd like to avoid banging my head against the wall more fighting the lack of visibility of erode for outdoors and heading down the road of using erode for outdoors if it ultimately isn't going to work because you can't see it.

Unlike SX where the tracks were previously smooth, so no erode on the rhythms didn't really matter; it's a huge thing for outdoors, as either we have to build rough tracks or having erode working well and that changes the workload on terrain creation significantly.

I'm happy to continue to help testing and developing the settings side, and we're making progress, but the visual element is a pretty substantial road block right now.

Probably not in a month for the self-occlusion. For the kicker thing, I was thinking it might help if I projected the force vector to the terrain before removing the Y component. I had ruled out that idea before but now I'm thinking it might actually be better that way. That should be an easy change to make. I just want to wrap up some stuff with the scripting integration first.

Not a real rush on the kicker thing as it isn't really an outdoor issue. I mean, cool when it comes I'm excited to test it, but don't over rush that part.

Just going to have to work with decals and lighting we have currently to do the best we can for outdoors, just hard with elevation and shadows and everything to really make this work.

Re: Lighting and erode.

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:14 am
by Hi Im Skyqe
JLV, do wheel collisions create erode currently? It just seems we are trying to mimic real life ruts and bumps but cannot achieve the same shape or spacing in some area's. Could the shape or sizing of the current collisions have something to do with this?

Re: Lighting and erode.

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:58 pm
by Sabo
Hi Im Skyqe wrote:JLV, do wheel collisions create erode currently? It just seems we are trying to mimic real life ruts and bumps but cannot achieve the same shape or spacing in some area's. Could the shape or sizing of the current collisions have something to do with this?

I don't believe they do. I believe erode width is something that is edited in the tileinfo. If you look at Jay's A1, you can tell it is a lot thinner and more aggressive.

Re: Lighting and erode.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:30 am
by jlv
Hi Im Skyqe wrote:JLV, do wheel collisions create erode currently? It just seems we are trying to mimic real life ruts and bumps but cannot achieve the same shape or spacing in some area's. Could the shape or sizing of the current collisions have something to do with this?

It's calculated from the tire to ground contacts. Not sure if you meant something else by wheel collisions. The main obstacle for small ruts is the track resolution doesn't have enough detail for it. (On top of that, the contact info in the erode packets is averaged to save bandwidth which also reduces the resolution in a way.) I'd worry less about skinny ruts and more about getting the bumps right since that is actually possible as opposed to trying to make something that you don't have the detail to represent.

Re: Lighting and erode.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:02 am
by Hi Im Skyqe
jlv wrote:
Hi Im Skyqe wrote:JLV, do wheel collisions create erode currently? It just seems we are trying to mimic real life ruts and bumps but cannot achieve the same shape or spacing in some area's. Could the shape or sizing of the current collisions have something to do with this?

It's calculated from the tire to ground contacts. Not sure if you meant something else by wheel collisions. The main obstacle for small ruts is the track resolution doesn't have enough detail for it. (On top of that, the contact info in the erode packets is averaged to save bandwidth which also reduces the resolution in a way.) I'd worry less about skinny ruts and more about getting the bumps right since that is actually possible as opposed to trying to make something that you don't have the detail to represent.


I used the wrong wording with collision. I was asking what the shape of the tire creating the erode is. When you run erode at 100 it seems that the erode forming is shaped like a sphere.

Image

No idea if I am correct or even in the ballpark but it seems like the current tire shaped like a sphere? I was just wondering if the changing the shape of the tire to have a flatter side profile could help?

Re: Lighting and erode.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:56 pm
by yzmxer608

Re: Lighting and erode.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:20 am
by Hi Im Skyqe
Thanks Nate.

Re: Lighting and erode.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:17 am
by jlv
Hi Im Skyqe wrote:
jlv wrote:
Hi Im Skyqe wrote:JLV, do wheel collisions create erode currently? It just seems we are trying to mimic real life ruts and bumps but cannot achieve the same shape or spacing in some area's. Could the shape or sizing of the current collisions have something to do with this?

It's calculated from the tire to ground contacts. Not sure if you meant something else by wheel collisions. The main obstacle for small ruts is the track resolution doesn't have enough detail for it. (On top of that, the contact info in the erode packets is averaged to save bandwidth which also reduces the resolution in a way.) I'd worry less about skinny ruts and more about getting the bumps right since that is actually possible as opposed to trying to make something that you don't have the detail to represent.


I used the wrong wording with collision. I was asking what the shape of the tire creating the erode is. When you run erode at 100 it seems that the erode forming is shaped like a sphere.

Image

No idea if I am correct or even in the ballpark but it seems like the current tire shaped like a sphere? I was just wondering if the changing the shape of the tire to have a flatter side profile could help?

Erode digs using the same shape as the brush in the editor. It's a radial spline curve with the slope set to 0 at the edge and center.