Rear Brake tapping when in airtime suggestion.

[Judge]

Well as most of us motocross riders know, tapping the rear brake while holding the clutch in "airtime" makes the front end come down.

Thing is, it does work in MxS, yet the front brake does make the front end come down even harder, I've no idea if this is so in real life too.
Anywhat, thing is I believe tapping the rear brake should make the front wheel/end come down just a bit harder, it obviously isn't a matter of vital importance, yet I think it would be a nice addition/improvement to the game, and it would save a lot of crashes in some cases... Also making the bike turn off and back on if you don't hit the clutch when you hit the brake would be great, but I guess harder since the bike doesn't turn off at any moment ingame.

I'd love to know what you all thing about this, and don't be rough, as it's just a suggestion.

Best regards,
Judge.

[DJ99X]

You probably wouldn't think that locking the front wheel would bring your front wheel down, but that is only because its a silly thing to do in real life. But yes, locking the front wheel will make your front drop.

I dont think the effect of locking the brakes in the air is something you just estimate. The amount of force you put on the brakes you would have to estimate, but with locking the wheels whilst in the air, all its relying on is the laws of momentum. In the air, it only requires a small force to lock the brakes up, and once they are locked, more force does nothing.

Once the wheels are locked, the angular momentum of the wheels is transferred to the rest of the bike/rider. All the additional rotation velocity will depend on, is the wheel speed before it was locked, and the weight distribution.

[JP37R]

I'm not sure about the real life effect of tapping the front brake, I've never tried it. I would suspect that if you did stop the front wheel in air it might cause some problems when you land and the front tire momentarily skids before gaining rotation (possible washout situation?). I would tend to believe, like you have mentioned, that the rear wheel has more effect because of its higher weight and rotational inertia, but, it is also at the end of a long lever (swingarm) which lessens the shock to the chassis depending on the length.

I would also believe that tapping the front brake wouldn't drop the front but instead raise the rear.

[DJ99X]

I would also believe that tapping the front brake wouldn't drop the front but instead raise the rear.

Incorrect. Momentum is always conserved. If you are looking at the bike from its left side, and both wheels are spinning anticlockwise, to conserve momentum, locking any of these wheels will result in the bike/rider rotating anticlockwise (actually, it will add anticlockwise momentum. If you are doing a backflip [rotating clockwise], it would be possible to stop the bike rotating altogether, as both momentums would cancel each other out).

[Taylor Racing #94x]

In mxs go ahead and lock up the front breaks if you wast to...But in real, don't unless you are on a very hard packed track, because my friend did that over a 40ft table the landing was not packed from guys scrubing it, ate fat crap cuz his front tire washed you...rember, it was only a 40ft table

[magnusson]

i only use the rear break in mxs(i'm that kinda rider like more realistic than speed xD) and if u pick the brake when the rear tire goes in the air then it does its work

[Judge]

@ JP...

Negative, tapping the front brake does bring the front wheel/end down, though you're most likely to crash ( depending on the bikes lean position when landing ), and very hard most of the times. A guy I know crashed because of tapping the front brake instead of the rear and ended up quite bad.

@ DJ

Agreed with the first paragraph. In fact I don't think front wheel tapping should be changed at all, the reaction when on air is good. What I'm on about is rear brake, and yeah it is true that it depends on the speed + weight distribution...

What you want to do is take off with the front end sort of high, get on your handlebars, clutch + real quick rear brake tap, and get back normal.

I've seen my brother do it for over a year now...

Guess that should work as a reference ( to anyone who doesn't know how the thing goes ), excuse me for making the picture a little bit big, I just thought it would do the work better.

Anyways, I've been trying to recreate it on MxS and I've got quite near to it, yet the whole process has nothing to do with the one I just described.

In the other hand, I would like to know DJ ( if it is possible ), would it be hard to change the reaction of the rear brake when tapping it in air? Regardless of the fact you hit it with or without the clutch, or you do or do not lean frontwards.

As I said before, it's not a matter of vital importance, but just a suggestion. Thanks to you guys for telling me what you think.

Please forgive my english as it lacks most of the times.

[DJ99X]

would it be hard to change the reaction of the rear brake when tapping it in air

There wouldn't be an 'estimated' factor in the calculations for the effect of locking the rear brake. All of JLV's physics are correct, assuming his weight distributions are correct. Weight distribution is the only variable dependent on JLV's data, with the only other variable being wheel rotation velocity, which is calculated by the game. Any changes made to change the effect of the rear brake in the air would make the physics for this particular aspect fake.

As for clutch vs no clutch. Neither of these will have an effect, unless JLV had included the engines interior momentum, which would probably only have a slight effect anyways.

[Judge]

I see, well I guess I'll just stick to my way of doing it and see if JLV has anything to say about this ( if he reads it ).

Yeah the only thing you hit the clutch for is so the bike doesn't turn off, and as you said the engine's interior momentum isn't in the game so it wouldn't make sense.

Thanks again for your attention,
Judge.

[JP37R]

I would also believe that tapping the front brake wouldn't drop the front but instead raise the rear.

Incorrect. Momentum is always conserved. If you are looking at the bike from its left side, and both wheels are spinning anticlockwise, to conserve momentum, locking any of these wheels will result in the bike/rider rotating anticlockwise (actually, it will add anticlockwise momentum. If you are doing a backflip [rotating clockwise], it would be possible to stop the bike rotating altogether, as both momentums would cancel each other out).

I think I understand, the force of the wheel stopping and transfering energy up the fork tubes and into the chassis would have to overcome the resistance (mass of the rest of the bike) for it to actually raise the rear like I had suggested.

[DJ99X]

Oh wait, I see what you are saying. I thought you meant the bike would go into an air wheelie.

Yes, you are correct that the rear will raise. But still, your front end is dropping, depending on your frame of reference.

Can't believe I just brought relativity into this.

[Judge]

Can't believe I just brought relativity into this.

Hahah nice one

[Jman567]

yea if you tap the front brake in the air it makes the front end drop harder than the tapping the back brake... BUT DONT TRY THIS OVER A HUGE DOUBLE IT PROLLY WONT FEEL GOOD! lol

[jlv]

Most of the reason why the front brake has a more apparent brake tap effect is because the engine doesn't slow the front wheel. The rear wheel on the other hand slows down when you let off the throttle in the air, so the wheel is only going from idle speed to stopped. If you go from a panic rev to locked the effect will be much larger.

[Phathry25]

Why must you be so smart?