Erode status/update

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Re: Erode status/update

Postby jlv » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:00 am

checkerz wrote:So...is this "fluff" layer something we can expect to see? Near future as in before SX is over? Outdoors? Not at all?

I'd like to do some more stuff with scripting first. At least get blender pose/keyframe exports going so I can replace all the sprite flaggers. At some point I'd like to rewrite the terrain engine without having to support GPU's that don't support GLSL shaders and large textures. That will simplify it a lot and make it easier to quickly modify the terrain since less stuff will need to be pre-calculated. I can't make a good estimate of when that'll be done. Definitely sooner than "never".

Any opinion on the traction thing?
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Re: Erode status/update

Postby checkerz » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:20 am

jlv wrote:Any opinion on the traction thing?


No, I've lost the motivation to dedicate anymore time to the development of this game. I have a couple more terrains I committed to for SX, and I'll be moving on. Being realistic, erode testing for outdoors should be starting in the next week; but updates have been badly needed. Instead we are getting updates that aren't helping the series.

I've been under the understanding that this is more like an e-sport and gameplay needs to come before visual bells and whistles, but we're getting "environment sounds" and "scoretowers" before much needed optimization and visual updates that are needed for gameplay.

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Re: Erode status/update

Postby Jakob Hubbard » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:33 pm

checkerz wrote:Updates have been badly needed. Instead we are getting updates that aren't helping the series.

I've been under the understanding that this is more like an e-sport and gameplay needs to come before visual bells and whistles, but we're getting "environment sounds" and "scoretowers" before much needed optimization and visual updates that are needed for gameplay.

rt.

We need to have visual updates to see erode better. I like Race Karlin's idea of displacement mapping where you would be able to see different lines people are taking before erode actually starts to kick in. This could allow more line options and we would be able to see the "erode" a little better earlier on.

Optimization wouldn't hurt either. You need a relatively beefy cpu to run erode with 20+ riders. I understand the reshade delay setting helps a little with that, however it comes with the expense of seeing erode pop up right in front of you. I've had this issue sometimes where my reshade delay is on 6-7, and on lap 2 or 3 I'll just see erode come out of nowhere as I enter into a corner. It's not as bad later into the moto, but early on it's a huge disadvantage.
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Re: Erode status/update

Postby Racers52 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:44 pm

Jakob Hubbard wrote:
checkerz wrote:Updates have been badly needed. Instead we are getting updates that aren't helping the series.

I've been under the understanding that this is more like an e-sport and gameplay needs to come before visual bells and whistles, but we're getting "environment sounds" and "scoretowers" before much needed optimization and visual updates that are needed for gameplay.

rt.

We need to have visual updates to see erode better. I like Race Karlin's idea of displacement mapping where you would be able to see different lines people are taking before erode actually starts to kick in. This could allow more line options and we would be able to see the "erode" a little better earlier on.

Optimization wouldn't hurt either. You need a relatively beefy cpu to run erode with 20+ riders. I understand the reshade delay setting helps a little with that, however it comes with the expense of seeing erode pop up right in front of you. I've had this issue sometimes where my reshade delay is on 6-7, and on lap 2 or 3 I'll just see erode come out of nowhere as I enter into a corner. It's not as bad later into the moto, but early on it's a huge disadvantage.


Out of all the updates needed, I think we need 2k terrain optimization and 4k terrain implementation. Doubling the pixel work space really benefits erode so much and people dont understand that.
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Re: Erode status/update

Postby Jakob Hubbard » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:47 pm

Racers52 wrote:Out of all the updates needed, I think we need 2k terrain optimization and 4k terrain implementation. Doubling the pixel work space really benefits erode so much and people dont understand that.

4k terrains would help with big 2k terrains not being so pixeled (Nationals). 2k terrain optimization for sx would also be fantastic. 100% agree with this.
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Re: Erode status/update

Postby jlv » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:30 am

checkerz wrote:No, I've lost the motivation to dedicate anymore time to the development of this game. I have a couple more terrains I committed to for SX, and I'll be moving on. Being realistic, erode testing for outdoors should be starting in the next week; but updates have been badly needed. Instead we are getting updates that aren't helping the series.

I've been under the understanding that this is more like an e-sport and gameplay needs to come before visual bells and whistles, but we're getting "environment sounds" and "scoretowers" before much needed optimization and visual updates that are needed for gameplay.

I'll still do erode updates but not to the exclusion of everything else. It's a bottomless rabbit hole. If I focus exclusively on erode the game will never get another feature. The worst part is the people who hate it probably can't be won over since they just prefer a smooth track, which is understandable since the game is already very difficult. Stopping all other work in favor of a feature that a large percentage of the users hate is suicidal.

The scripting stuff is going to be a huge force multiplier for me. Instead of wasting time managing memory for every stupid little thing I'll be able to use scripts and let the garbage collector worry about the memory. Sorry if you don't like that but I have to do what's right for the game. I hope you stay around despite seeing things differently.

Racers52 wrote:Out of all the updates needed, I think we need 2k terrain optimization and 4k terrain implementation. Doubling the pixel work space really benefits erode so much and people dont understand that.

Denser scales really do add to the workload though. There aren't any order of magnitude optimizations left. I'm pretty much down to low level stuff and threads. The low hanging fruit is all picked.

The one bright spot is the slow systems seem to be 8 core bulldozers which will probably respond well to threading. I used to not bother with threads since the systems that were slow were usually dual core at best. Not the case anymore.
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Re: Erode status/update

Postby DJ99X » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:22 pm

jlv wrote:Denser scales really do add to the workload though. There aren't any order of magnitude optimizations left. I'm pretty much down to low level stuff and threads. The low hanging fruit is all picked.


The only glaring opportunity I can see is being able to allocate high resolution to the track where it needs to be, then have low resolution off track. Not sure how much impact that would have though after terrain compression.

On the defense of JLV, scripting has been on the cards for many years Chris. From an environment development standpoint, it's been well overdue having the ability to do the things we can now.

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Re: Erode status/update

Postby VUSTTOS » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:51 pm

jlv wrote:The worst part is the people who hate it probably can't be won over since they just prefer a smooth track, which is understandable since the game is already very difficult.

People doesn't like erode because it's not a finished product yet. Still needs lot of work.
Comparin an arcade vs a simulator is probably not the best point but everyone likes the terrain deformation of those console games. Why? Because every MxvsAtv or MXGP have their own erode, performs and suits well to each game. It can be more or less realistic, but it suits well with the gameplay of each game. That's why no one hates them.
As you all have been talking about, in Sim, the feeling is that erode doesn't seem to suit well -fps, visibility, dirt simulation...- even after more than a year of development.


checkerz wrote:No, I've lost the motivation to dedicate anymore time to the development of this game. Being realistic, erode testing for outdoors should be starting in the next week; but updates have been badly needed. Instead we are getting updates that aren't helping the series.


I've been around for quite a while, enjoyed everything you've done but to be honest, I have always wondered what was your motivation to keep puttin countless hours on the development of this game, specially seeing that the creator itself seems to take everything very slowly which is understandable as he is the only one.

We all like to contribute on the future of this simulator by creating models, skins, tracks or tournaments but let me say one thing, you are Chex, one step above. You and a few others from rF seems to be the only ones who are interested lately in the development of the game so if I were the owner of this game, I would be really afraid to loose you are your group of guys. Specially seeing how lot of great artist has gone and no one new comes.
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Re: Erode status/update

Postby jlv » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:12 am

DJ99X wrote:
jlv wrote:Denser scales really do add to the workload though. There aren't any order of magnitude optimizations left. I'm pretty much down to low level stuff and threads. The low hanging fruit is all picked.


The only glaring opportunity I can see is being able to allocate high resolution to the track where it needs to be, then have low resolution off track. Not sure how much impact that would have though after terrain compression.

As far as erode goes it only affects the areas the bikes are riding on so variable resolution wouldn't speed it up much. Variable resolution would save memory though. It'd be a good idea for implementing huge terrains for off road that couldn't reasonably fit at full resolution.
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Re: Erode status/update

Postby Itz Raidox » Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:02 pm

has anyone ever suggested to get some more people or board other then just jlv? im not sure if this has been stated before was just wondering
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Re: Erode status/update

Postby checkerz » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:20 am

DJ99X wrote:
On the defense of JLV, scripting has been on the cards for many years Chris.


Like this?

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:roll:

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Re: Erode status/update

Postby checkerz » Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:50 am

Just curious, why do we still not erode through jump lips?

Nice trenches on flat ground:
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But refuses to keep going at the lip:

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Not to mention most jumps turn into a mini dragon's back when they do erode...

Thought this has to do with the resolution, but even at a 10 foot wide bulldozer, it's the same thing just scaled up.


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