Hotfootsteel: a journey deep into the mind of an isolated young gamer

I've heard conversation coming out of animal pens that is more intelligent than what is going on in here.
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Wahlamt
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Re: Scrap the current erode system

Postby Wahlamt » Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:01 am

Wasn't the old erode version just leaving a ditch behind the bike, or is that my mind playing games?

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Re: Scrap the current erode system

Postby Finalmushroom » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:23 pm

jlv wrote:It's a good example of me going off the rails. I should have just done a simple system that leaves a ditch behind the bike. Instead I tried to make it model everything. People just wanted ruts and I gave them braking and acceleration bumps, which seems to actually be a negative for most people.

HotFootSteel, you'd like it better if it just made smooth ruts right?


I'm curious, in the future do you think the traction will feel like it did in 2017 (a bit more sticky) with erode?

Or are your goals different? I'm curious what you have in store for erode in the future (Overall and concerning traction feel). I think comparing 2017 to 2018 traction keeping your momentum is more important on the erode tracks as it seems to be a bit more "slick" feeling.

Either way, keep on grinding! :mrgreen:

-Jake

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SKlein
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Re: Scrap the current erode system

Postby SKlein » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:30 pm

jlv wrote:People just wanted ruts and I gave them braking and acceleration bumps, which seems to actually be a negative for most people.

Braking/accel bumps were mainly problematic outdoors because you couldn't get quality roughness without also enduring 6 foot deep ruts (on most occasions). Chris's new settings may have resolved this, but at the time the two wouldn't coincide.

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Re: Scrap the current erode system

Postby checkerz » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:28 am

SKlein wrote:
jlv wrote:People just wanted ruts and I gave them braking and acceleration bumps, which seems to actually be a negative for most people.

Braking/accel bumps were mainly problematic outdoors because you couldn't get quality roughness without also enduring 6 foot deep ruts (on most occasions). Chris's new settings may have resolved this, but at the time the two wouldn't coincide.

I still get complaints about anything that doesn't make the track more railable from some... especially if they don't do well.

With the addition of the new lateral setting and me learning how to use the depth settings better, I agree with SKlein, and it's only going to get better.

SX is 1000% better than a year ago, and honestly, erode in it's current state will definitely be WAY better outdoors. It's already "solid" in SX, but I think it'll be really, really impressive for 2019 outdoors. Get it more visible and I'd say say it could be down right game changing honestly.

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Re: Scrap the current erode system

Postby Ddavis » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:23 am

Kids like the OP are the reason why Chris left us.

Chris, we argue, but you're appreciated.
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Re: Scrap the current erode system

Postby jlv » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:36 am

Wahlamt wrote:Wasn't the old erode version just leaving a ditch behind the bike, or is that my mind playing games?

The original version (from way before the current online version) worked by tracking the roost. I think that's why I called it "erode", because the roost was eroding away the dirt. Turns out roost is not the major factor in how a motocross track deforms so it didn't work well at all.

Finalmushroom wrote:I'm curious, in the future do you think the traction will feel like it did in 2017 (a bit more sticky) with erode?

Or are your goals different? I'm curious what you have in store for erode in the future (Overall and concerning traction feel). I think comparing 2017 to 2018 traction keeping your momentum is more important on the erode tracks as it seems to be a bit more "slick" feeling.

Traction is a separate thing. If you're thinking you might get support from the rut as you're making it, it wouldn't work. The game tries not to move the ground under your wheels because it makes things inconsistent.

SKlein wrote:
jlv wrote:People just wanted ruts and I gave them braking and acceleration bumps, which seems to actually be a negative for most people.

Braking/accel bumps were mainly problematic outdoors because you couldn't get quality roughness without also enduring 6 foot deep ruts (on most occasions). Chris's new settings may have resolved this, but at the time the two wouldn't coincide.

That's what the lateral scaling was for. I'm not saying the current system is bad. I'm just saying that I (and Chris too!) wound up going down a much deeper than expected rabbit hole when I could have probably got away with something way more simple. If it didn't do braking bumps I doubt people like HotFootSteel would have cared or even noticed.

On the bright side, having a terrain deformation system that makes braking bumps is pretty awesome. I don't have any ideas to further improve the actual deformation. I will make some changes to let the shading update quicker.
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Re: Scrap the current erode system

Postby Boblob801 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:28 am

jlv wrote:Traction is a separate thing. If you're thinking you might get support from the rut as you're making it, it wouldn't work. The game tries not to move the ground under your wheels because it makes things inconsistent.


Could you expand on this? I always had a feeling if the ground moved under you, it could hold you in such "material" as sand and give a nicer feel. As it stands, sim has always felt like hard packed dirt that has varied rates of slipperiness.

A simpler system for erode would have it's benefits because let's be honest, 99.9999% of the community are spoons. There's a reason only Chris and yourself play with the current erode in such depth and no one else. (I feel like a simpler traction system would also be beneficial)
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Re: Scrap the current erode system

Postby HotFootSteel » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:37 pm

Boblob801 wrote:
jlv wrote:Traction is a separate thing. If you're thinking you might get support from the rut as you're making it, it wouldn't work. The game tries not to move the ground under your wheels because it makes things inconsistent.


Could you expand on this? I always had a feeling if the ground moved under you, it could hold you in such "material" as sand and give a nicer feel. As it stands, sim has always felt like hard packed dirt that has varied rates of slipperiness.

A simpler system for erode would have it's benefits because let's be honest, 99.9999% of the community are spoons. There's a reason only Chris and yourself play with the current erode in such depth and no one else. (I feel like a simpler traction system would also be beneficial)



The game tries not to move the ground under your wheels?? you fucking retard this is supposed to be a simulator and its so fake in so many aspects,like boblob said this video game just feels like hard pack with varied rates of slipperiness aka unrealistic, well guess what theres a BETER dirtbike simulator out at MX-BIKES.com.braking bumps and ruts that feel WAY more how dirt should feel. The physics are way better none of this "throw it is 5th gear just to level out" fake bull shit.Ban me do what ever you want does not matter now, Im just so happy I found something 10 times better then this 2008 mess

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Re: Scrap the current erode system

Postby Fro77 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:12 pm

HotFootSteel wrote:The game tries not to move the ground under your wheels?? you fucking retard this is supposed to be a simulator and its so fake in so many aspects,like boblob said this video game just feels like hard pack with varied rates of slipperiness aka unrealistic, well guess what theres a BETER dirtbike simulator out at MX-BIKES.com.braking bumps and ruts that feel WAY more how dirt should feel. The physics are way better none of this "throw it is 5th gear just to level out" fake bull shit.Ban me do what ever you want does not matter now, Im just so happy I found something 10 times better then this 2008 mess


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Re: Scrap the current erode system

Postby dawsonsleeper » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:51 pm

AHeckman2 wrote:So you make a forum account to complain about something that you’re not fully informed on? That’s the smartest thing I’ve seen today :lol:

Erode has come very far since JLV started working on making it operable online. It still can be improved but saying it should be scrapped is not going to be of any help.

i remember a couple summers ago doing the test races on 2017 Unadilla when it was first released to now... erode has come so far. even since last years SX its leaps and bounds better.
jlv wrote:WTF I love Trump now! Make America great again!

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Re: Scrap the current erode system

Postby jlv » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:06 am

Boblob801 wrote:
jlv wrote:Traction is a separate thing. If you're thinking you might get support from the rut as you're making it, it wouldn't work. The game tries not to move the ground under your wheels because it makes things inconsistent.


Could you expand on this? I always had a feeling if the ground moved under you, it could hold you in such "material" as sand and give a nicer feel. As it stands, sim has always felt like hard packed dirt that has varied rates of slipperiness.

A simpler system for erode would have it's benefits because let's be honest, 99.9999% of the community are spoons. There's a reason only Chris and yourself play with the current erode in such depth and no one else. (I feel like a simpler traction system would also be beneficial)

When you lower or raise the ground that the bike is currently sitting on it's like riding during an earthquake. The wheels lose contact for an instant and it's not a secure feeling. If you want more forgiving traction the best way to do it is by ramping up the coefficient of friction as the slip speed increases. If you think about it, in real life what makes a certain soil type feel forgiving is if it slips a bit before it loses all traction. Sand has a lower coefficient than pavement, but it feels safer because when it lets go it loses traction very gradually.

HotFootSteel wrote:The game tries not to move the ground under your wheels?? you fucking retard this is supposed to be a simulator and its so fake in so many aspects,like boblob said this video game just feels like hard pack with varied rates of slipperiness aka unrealistic, well guess what theres a BETER dirtbike simulator out at MX-BIKES.com.braking bumps and ruts that feel WAY more how dirt should feel. The physics are way better none of this "throw it is 5th gear just to level out" fake bull shit.Ban me do what ever you want does not matter now, Im just so happy I found something 10 times better then this 2008 mess

You have no understanding of the issues involved. I do agree that for a casual player MX Bikes looks like a great game. No need to be so combative about it.
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Re: Scrap the current erode system

Postby NKarassy955 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:44 am

I love how erode is currently, of course its not 100% realistic and perfect... but its a video game like come on. I believe how it is now is wonderful, and it was a big achievement for JLV. I don't see why you got to hate on it when he is putting hours after hours of work trying to make our gaming experience phenomenal and realistic. Only thing i would say that would relish my gaming experience would be rendering time of the shading with the terrain which you already have stated, and possibly making the ruts form smoother, as if your behind someone by a second, it just pops up, possibly have the rut form from one side to the other smoothly. Great work with erode so far!

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Re: Scrap the current erode system

Postby reddead422 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:45 am

jlv wrote:

Would there be a way for you to put the "non breaking bump" edition of erode in while still keeping the current erode system in the game so we can have some community comparisons and opinions on the advantages/disadvantages of both. I don't even know if that would be possible having two different systems at once. But in my opinion, if it were possible it could be very beneficial to chex and the rest of the god tier erode frontiersmen slashing and wacking their way through a forest of blood, sweat, and tears just to receive, "it sucks" as the current feedback. I know not having erode form braking bumps would not be as realistic but i think compromising and having the tracks ride a tad more consistent while still having a form of deformation would be the ideal dream. Who knows just the idea Smidly and I had just now in discord, maybe it's a good idea. I don't know. :D

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Re: Scrap the current erode system

Postby Smidly » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:45 am

reddead422 wrote:
jlv wrote:

Would there be a way for you to put the "non breaking bump" edition of erode in while still keeping the current erode system in the game so we can have some community comparisons and opinions on the advantages/disadvantages of both. I don't even know if that would be possible having two different systems at once. But in my opinion, if it were possible it could be very beneficial to chex and the rest of the god tier erode frontiersmen slashing and wacking their way through a forest of blood, sweat, and tears just to receive, "it sucks" as the current feedback. I know not having erode form braking bumps would not be as realistic but i think compromising and having the tracks ride a tad more consistent while still having a form of deformation would be the ideal dream. Who knows just the idea Smidly and I had just now in discord, maybe it's a good idea. I don't know. :D

Now, this... This is epic.
Image

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Re: Scrap the current erode system

Postby checkerz » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:18 am

reddead422 wrote:
jlv wrote:

Would there be a way for you to put the "non breaking bump" edition of erode in while still keeping the current erode system in the game so we can have some community comparisons and opinions on the advantages/disadvantages of both. I don't even know if that would be possible having two different systems at once. But in my opinion, if it were possible it could be very beneficial to chex and the rest of the god tier erode frontiersmen slashing and wacking their way through a forest of blood, sweat, and tears just to receive, "it sucks" as the current feedback. I know not having erode form braking bumps would not be as realistic but i think compromising and having the tracks ride a tad more consistent while still having a form of deformation would be the ideal dream. Who knows just the idea Smidly and I had just now in discord, maybe it's a good idea. I don't know. :D

If you could learn the erode settings, you could do this easily.

Good luck, have fun.


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