2017 EMF World MXSGP series

Moderators: nioubie, M@xTizZz, Wahlamt

chrischanning202
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 3:03 pm
Location: England

Re: 2017 EMF World MXSGP series

Postby chrischanning202 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:21 pm

Rayvenator wrote:
M@xTizZz wrote:people pay, we don't want them to not be able to race because of their slow laptime.


This I don't agree with at all. It's not like just because I bought the GP pass I should be automatically given a spot in the race.
Qualification is there so you can prove you are fast enough, to earn your place in the race. If you can't get in to the top 40 you either need to practice more or drop down a class. Consolation races should be enough to satisfy everyone.


No C class but an AM class with a consi would solve this straight away...
Image

User avatar
Rayvenator
Posts: 654
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:57 pm
Team: TM-Factory Racing
Location: Lund, Sweden
Contact:

Re: 2017 EMF World MXSGP series

Postby Rayvenator » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:30 pm

chrischanning202 wrote:
No C class but an AM class with a consi would solve this straight away...


Still won't solve the lack of riders in Pro.
Image

chrischanning202
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 3:03 pm
Location: England

Re: 2017 EMF World MXSGP series

Postby chrischanning202 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:12 pm

Rayvenator wrote:
chrischanning202 wrote:
No C class but an AM class with a consi would solve this straight away...


Still won't solve the lack of riders in Pro.


Free to play (or just cheaper) series until it's recognised for good hosting, professionalism and decent tracks.
Image

User avatar
Rayvenator
Posts: 654
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:57 pm
Team: TM-Factory Racing
Location: Lund, Sweden
Contact:

Re: 2017 EMF World MXSGP series

Postby Rayvenator » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:25 pm

chrischanning202 wrote:
Free to play (or just cheaper) series until it's recognised for good hosting, professionalism and decent tracks.


1. It is cheap if you consider the amount of time they put in, the prizepool they pay out and the ridiculous amount of hosted races you get
2. Hosting is great as far as I can tell
3. Tracks are great simulator tracks, people just want arcade style tracks that's easier to play
Image

User avatar
M@xTizZz
Posts: 1911
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:20 pm
Team: TizZy-Design
Location: France

Re: 2017 EMF World MXSGP series

Postby M@xTizZz » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:08 pm

chrischanning202 wrote:Free to play (or just cheaper) series until it's recognised for good hosting, professionalism and decent tracks.


LOL
Maxime Tison #13 [EMF] | #89 [rF]
|EMF Official admin Image| |Tizzy Design Owner Image|
Skype ID : max_tizzz

User avatar
Atom6246
Posts: 2844
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:28 am
Team: Architech
Location: Florida

Re: 2017 EMF World MXSGP series

Postby Atom6246 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:01 pm

M@xTizZz wrote:
chrischanning202 wrote:professionalism


LOL

Good point Chris. Think EMF just want's to run it how they like (which is fine because it is there series) but also why theres not 40 man gates.

Ray that might be the case. You have to think of every rider. From the top pro's to slower am's. If you were still learning the physics would you enjoy trying to ride these tracks? You wouldn't.
IMO the hosting and price is fine but it all comes down to the tracks. I think I got in 1 battle this race and it was because the person was taking the main line. Could only wait on a mistake to pass. Now I have to admit it was challenging trying to do stay up the whole race, weather that was because the lack of practice (since theirs no fun factor to drive me to practice it) or just the difficulty of the track I have no clue but I'm sure if the tracks were better there would be a bigger show up.
Check out my YouTube channel by clicking the pic below!
Image

User avatar
Wahlamt
Posts: 5648
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:15 pm
Team: MLG Compton
Location: Sweden

Re: 2017 EMF World MXSGP series

Postby Wahlamt » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:35 pm

Atom6246 wrote:IMO the hosting and price is fine

I take this as a conpliment, which I really appreciate.

Atom6246 wrote:I'm sure if the tracks were better there would be a bigger show up.

Looking back, even when we had the AMA stuff exclusively, it was the same amount of riders, also then it was free. For as long as I've been involved with the racing, each and every year you start with full gates, then it drops off eventually (speaking about EMF).

It's really hard to get people motivated to run a whole series. If you ask me, there are 3 different types of people:
1. Races the whole series (as many rounds as they can).
2. Races in the beginning, hype fades away, stops racing.
3. Comes in late into the season, qualifies because of the lack of riders and rides the race.

However if you do a funrace, you can get quite a few to sign up. When I hosted Charlotte, there was over 200 riders signed up and probably around 170 that qualified by running times. Gates were filled moto 1, to moto 2 (450) almost half of the field were gone. Not sure why, but people just lose interest. I'm sure I've seen the same with rF, except there it was 10 riders in the consolation race instead of 40 (I would like to remember seeing this).

All and all, I just think people lose interest if they don't win, rage etc. Too baed, it's always far more fun with stacked gates.

User avatar
RFX_corentin_12
Posts: 484
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:26 pm
Team: CJM
Location: France
Contact:

Re: 2017 EMF World MXSGP series

Postby RFX_corentin_12 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:55 pm

Wahlamt wrote:
Atom6246 wrote:I'm sure if the tracks were better there would be a bigger show up.

Looking back, even when we had the AMA stuff exclusively, it was the same amount of riders, also then it was free. For as long as I've been involved with the racing, each and every year you start with full gates, then it drops off eventually (speaking about EMF).


This is the 3 last round of EMF Outdoors 2015 (so last year on AMA Outdoors tracks), almost full gates. And this is the same thing for all round of the series..

Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
M@xTizZz
Posts: 1911
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:20 pm
Team: TizZy-Design
Location: France

Re: 2017 EMF World MXSGP series

Postby M@xTizZz » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:34 am

RFX_corentin_12 wrote:
Wahlamt wrote:
Atom6246 wrote:I'm sure if the tracks were better there would be a bigger show up.

Looking back, even when we had the AMA stuff exclusively, it was the same amount of riders, also then it was free. For as long as I've been involved with the racing, each and every year you start with full gates, then it drops off eventually (speaking about EMF).


This is the 3 last round of EMF Outdoors 2015 (so last year on AMA Outdoors tracks), almost full gates. And this is the same thing for all round of the series..

Image
Image
Image


as YOU said, almost full gate, and it was for free ...
so almost full gate is not full gate
When we release a track with moon traction we are close to 30players in 450 which is not far from 2015 outdoors when it was free.

If you wanna enter in the stats, do it right, in 2015 we had more than 800 players signing up for just 1 class.
so 800 players and no full gate ...
Here we have 300 players able to race (more actually), and half of the gate filled depending the track and the traction (because actual people race only if it's moon traction) so to me it's logical ..

What you are doing now is just killing EMF, i did a lot of sacrifice in my real life for running it since almost 3 years, and it's the same for all the guys in the crew.
Being insulted and hated like that with all the work we do is really starting to boring me, but like for real.
I would love to see all the guys complaining doing something real for the game, without my or others (Aaron) helps btw (=> Chris Channing).
My life is going to change completly in the next few days/weeks and it's not positive, the only positive thing in that is i'm not going to spend decade of hours for reading craps on our crew.
Maxime Tison #13 [EMF] | #89 [rF]
|EMF Official admin Image| |Tizzy Design Owner Image|
Skype ID : max_tizzz

User avatar
Dawson24
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri May 03, 2013 12:29 am
Team: Vital MX Honda
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: 2017 EMF World MXSGP series

Postby Dawson24 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:35 am

There will always be people that complain. That's just how it is.

I appreciate it that you guys take the time to put on an MXGP series. Hopefully you guys continue to do so next year.

User avatar
Atom6246
Posts: 2844
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:28 am
Team: Architech
Location: Florida

Re: 2017 EMF World MXSGP series

Postby Atom6246 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:05 am

Hey if it's killing EMF, so be it. That money should be motivating you because I'm sure someone else will be gladly willing to take your guys spot. I don't have any track making experience so I can't help there, only thing I feel like I could is by testing the tracks but I dont see how that would work.
Check out my YouTube channel by clicking the pic below!
Image

User avatar
Atom6246
Posts: 2844
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:28 am
Team: Architech
Location: Florida

Re: 2017 EMF World MXSGP series

Postby Atom6246 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:12 am

Thing is I feel like you guys aren't even trying to help yourselves. Like you already got the money so lets do fuck all who cares about the show up. I'm sure people are willing to help just have to ask.
Check out my YouTube channel by clicking the pic below!
Image

CeeJayHDz
Posts: 528
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:05 pm
Team: Privateer

Re: 2017 EMF World MXSGP series

Postby CeeJayHDz » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:03 am

the only thing i think hosting wise that needs to be improved is when people are watching the race and can see people being bad lappers and racing with the leaders (Morgi) and somebody mentions it in chat just to make an admin aware and maybe give him the blue flag message that the admin (Bruno) who is on the same team surprisingly doesn't respond with 'shutup or ill ban you'

That's the professionalism i believe chris channing is talking about.
Image

User avatar
Aaron Hall
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:30 pm
Team: Architech
Location: 0161 Manny on the Map
Contact:

Re: 2017 EMF World MXSGP series

Postby Aaron Hall » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:05 pm

Think of it like this if you have a membership for the whole year in place then that will stop most people who can only do a couple of rounds. Main reason i wont buy rf is because i can probably make only 3 rounds a year so that will stop a lot of people from America and other parts in the world. So tbh that is probably why there isn't a lot of sign ups, but you also need to remember people who have paid but already missed a few rounds are out of the championship so they will only ride the tracks which they enjoy or find easy and that is probably why a lot of people drop out after 5 rounds in.

Also the money which you pay goes towards 30%+ into prizes, server costs, hosting time, tracks being built, models being made, decals/overlays, sorting out high/med/low res tracks and all the electricity which is used to do all these things.

Also some of you need to remember that of course there will be some tracks you do and don't like but just leaving comments saying 'traction' etc doesn't actually help anyone, if all the people who complain about the track left feedback then am pretty sure tracks would improve every week too suit what everyone would like.
Like my work donate here https://www.paypal.me/AaronHall16
Image

User avatar
Wahlamt
Posts: 5648
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:15 pm
Team: MLG Compton
Location: Sweden

Re: 2017 EMF World MXSGP series

Postby Wahlamt » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:02 am

RFX_corentin_12 wrote:
Wahlamt wrote:Looking back, even when we had the AMA stuff exclusively, it was the same amount of riders, also then it was free. For as long as I've been involved with the racing, each and every year you start with full gates, then it drops off eventually (speaking about EMF).


This is the 3 last round of EMF Outdoors 2015 (so last year on AMA Outdoors tracks), almost full gates. And this is the same thing for all round of the series..

https://gyazo.com/964785213531233df05fe4c1a8d751b1.png
https://gyazo.com/191623d80f83a7bc60ea7645af6ccad6.png
https://gyazo.com/b6162ecbf99de93a9e60310e9c676966.png

Clearly I was wrong, thanks for showing me. (yes I mean it)

Dawson24 wrote:There will always be people that complain. That's just how it is.

I appreciate it that you guys take the time to put on an MXGP series. Hopefully you guys continue to do so next year.

Thanks mate :)

Atom6246 wrote:That money should be motivating you because I'm sure someone else will be gladly willing to take your guys spot.

There was a 2 year absence with GP's, no one seemed even remotely close to wanting to take it up, Aaron Hall was the only one who showed any sort of interest (that I saw) with a few guys building like 1 round. If others want to put in time and dedication (each and every week), I'd be happy to see that.

Atom6246 wrote:I don't have any track making experience so I can't help there, only thing I feel like I could is by testing the tracks but I don't see how that would work.

We've decided that only we in the crew are testing the tracks, no one outside are supposed to have them, that way no one should get them in advance. Personally I'm not very fast and I can't hit lines super fast. This surely holds me back a lot when testing the tracks. Another point I guess more or less no-one not making tracks know of is the (potentially) huge change in visuals. I make the track looking one way, often without decals or with a super shit overlay that's more or less one color. This was I can often see each and every bump, for me causing a placebo effect, feeling each and every bump, making them more severe than they really are. When the decals are added, up to 90% of the bumpiness I saw before can be gone, hence no placebo is left and all the sudden I can just hold it open over that section, that I couldn't before. Super strange phenomena, for me at least.

Russia in particular is my fault for poor testing. That track was made at an unbelievable pace, Tizz had about 0% faith in that I would finish it in time with how far behind I was on the terrain part. (My) next track should at least be tested more as I hope to have more time.

Atom6246 wrote:Thing is I feel like you guys aren't even trying to help yourselves. Like you already got the money so lets do fuck all who cares about the show up. I'm sure people are willing to help just have to ask.

We're definitely not doing that, we want to make tracks that people like. We like our style, so does at least quite a few more riders do. I like challenging replicas that challenge your skill and makes you think twice. Funtracks are supposed to be fun, and perhaps a bit easier imo. I just feel like aids if there are super big berm-ruts that you can just lay it over and rail. That's my personal style, for a funtrack, ok, but I personally don't want that as replicas. I haven't had time to test any rF tracks this year, so I can't compare them to the mxgp tracks, also I have too little time on last years rF tracks to make and sort of qualified comparison.

Aaron Hall wrote:Also some of you need to remember that of course there will be some tracks you do and don't like but just leaving comments saying 'traction' etc doesn't actually help anyone, if all the people who complain about the track left feedback then am pretty sure tracks would improve every week too suit what everyone would like.

As Aaron says, the more you explain your points, the more we understand and can try out new things. Saying "traction" is just no help at all. We know a lot of people want sticky traction, but at least I don't see that sticky traction being any close to a "real" traction, therefor I choose not to use it (when I decide). The example Atom showed some page back was a great example of how feedback is useful. Took an image, used paint for a minute or two and explained it. I immediately understood what he wanted to say and what could be improved. "plz fix this turn" doesn't tell you anything.

"Just add more people and you'll have more time/less to do per person"
I would really like to explain and debate this.

As of right now, the crew looks like:
- Storken, terrain, placing objects, timing gates, flaggers, cameras etc
- Gabriele, terrain, placing objects, timing gates, flaggers, cameras etc
- Justin, terrain, some object placement and other misc stuff and trackmaps.
- Alecee, not sure as I haven't talked to him directly, but he made Ernee terrain wise (may be based on Hagg's previous heightmap) and might have added statues etc.
- Tizz, places objects and decals as well as works on the visuals
- Bruno, places objects, sometimes decals
- Ruben does some 3d modelling
- Vincent (at least did in 2016) some 3d models
- Logan helping with hosting

This is the guys I know of, the we have a new guy Tizz is sort of teaching, hosting etc. Barrington might help somewhere too. Sorry if I forgot anyone. Mainly I myself talk to Tizz, Gab and Justin in our chat so I may have some things wrong or completely missed.

We got a few guys, but not all of us have time all the time, so there's mainly 2-3 guys working on one track at a time. So why don't we get someone else added?
Short answer: Hard to find someone.
Long answer:
In a project like this, we need to add people we trust, to 100%, people who hold their word. At the moment I feel like the people in the crew stick to their word and contribute as much or often as they can. If I ask Gab to do "thing x", he does "thing x" on the time he set it out on and vice versa. Last year we had a creator set out to do 2 rounds from his request. 1st track was delivered in time as planned, then we asked about the 2nd one (months in advance), he said he started looking at it, the new layout etc. Month or so went by, we got told he would start "this weekend". Same for the next while up until 1 month prior to the race on that track. 1 month before we got "no problem, I'll fix it". 2 weeks before the race we got the message "Sorry guys, can't make the track :( ". We asked if he had done something that we could finish, but the track wasn't even started...

So that's an example of unreliability. Just from committing to my stream, a lot of people are "HEY LETS DO IT IM IN FOR THE WHOLE SEASON", they come on twice and then never gets back to me, or just loses interest. With some people, I can almost guarantee that this would be the scenario without bringing them on, judging from prior experiences with the person.

Also one thing is that we have to sort of share the same vision. We that makes the tracks do. We want them a bit more realistic, no funtrack big ruts or asphalt traction, but trying to make people have to take risks and really practice their skills. Seemingly quite a few guys disagree with our style, I can understand that. However when I speak to people that prefer other tracks, a common theme (not for everyone) is that they "these days" have less time to practice and just wants something a bit easier to mess around on, as they don't have to practice the traction or the lines in order to do half-decent.

So, if we feel like we have people we can trust, that stand by their word and do what they say, we're going to give them a chance most likely, but we need to feel 100% confident. There needs to be a connection on a personal level so to speak.

I hope this can provide somewhat of an insight in the way things are. Keep in mind that visuals are probably at least 5-10h per track, statue/billboard placement 3+ hours, timing gates + cameras + flaggers 2h, terrain 20-40+ hours depending on how easy the track is to make. So a track is easy 60 hours of work. This is spare time that needs to be put in. I've more than once spend countless of hours just making a base terrain elevation, counting it up to over 24 hours on Loket just to make the parts you ride in somewhat resembling real life due to all weirdly angled surfaces at all places.

I'm very open to discussions or if you have any questions. Again, go back a page or a few and look at Atom's feedback. That kind of feedback is very useful for us. Hope we can all move towards understanding each other and what goes into making this happen.


Return to “EMF Racing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dirtbiker64, RFX_corentin_12 and 1 guest