skin making rules

[LilElevator739]

I kinda just got into the community and I'm a bit confused by the "rules". I was watching a guy on twitch put numbers on gear and the trademark said something like you can only use the gear for yourself and your team and you can't make team packs or gear for friends. This "rule" kinda confused me because didn't they make their gear on a model some guy made? By their own logic shouldn't they only be able to use that model to make gear for themselves and their team and not be able to sell it? It seems like its a bit hypocritical. I don't mean to start any arguments I'd just like some logical discussion on what the skinning "rules" should be. I was wanting to get some gear for myself but I don't have photoshop so by the rules that were on that trademark on the gear I can't pay someone to make me any so I would have to find a team to join?

[phobiiaz]

I kinda just got into the community and I'm a bit confused by the "rules". I was watching a guy on twitch put numbers on gear and the trademark said something like you can only use the gear for yourself and your team and you can't make team packs or gear for friends. This "rule" kinda confused me because didn't they make their gear on a model some guy made? By their own logic shouldn't they only be able to use that model to make gear for themselves and their team and not be able to sell it? It seems like its a bit hypocritical. I don't mean to start any arguments I'd just like some logical discussion on what the skinning "rules" should be. I was wanting to get some gear for myself but I don't have photoshop so by the rules that were on that trademark on the gear I can't pay someone to make me any so I would have to find a team to join?

To answer your question.. Yes that person that made that gear you are talking about, did make it on a model that they bought from another creator.. The disconnect you're having is that the gear that is made on that model is a "skin", therefore the creator is allowed to sell their skins to the community on the specific model i.e "JRE Model".. Now to explain why "you can only use the gear for yourself and your team and you can't make team packs or gear for friends." ... This rule is set in place for the specific reason that you stated i.e "I can't pay someone to make me any." Those rules are set in place to pay the ACTUAL CREATOR of the gear like myself (phobiiaz), and not a reseller just putting name and numbers on gear that they did NOT make or put time/effort into... Ripping and Reselling are a big problem, and as a creator like myself, you tend to put "rules" in place for people to follow so your hard work doesn't get resold. Its to protect the creator of said skin, and help the creator maximize profits from long hours of making those skins... A lot of people don't understand how much actually goes into making good gear... Ive been skinning for over 2 years now, and I put a lot of time and effort into my gear. To answer your question about "so I would have to find a team to join?"... You have actually 2 options, you can contact that actual creator of those skins that you are interested in and buy a "SAF" with your name and number on the back, OR you can join a team and get free skins from the team that bought that creators gear.. You also have a 3rd option as well, and that is to buy photoshop yourself, buy the JRE model, and learn how to make gear. Overall to circle back to the main point here, you should be contacting the actual creator of that gear you are interested in.

[Lancer2004]

I kinda just got into the community and I'm a bit confused by the "rules". I was watching a guy on twitch put numbers on gear and the trademark said something like you can only use the gear for yourself and your team and you can't make team packs or gear for friends. This "rule" kinda confused me because didn't they make their gear on a model some guy made? By their own logic shouldn't they only be able to use that model to make gear for themselves and their team and not be able to sell it? It seems like its a bit hypocritical. I don't mean to start any arguments I'd just like some logical discussion on what the skinning "rules" should be. I was wanting to get some gear for myself but I don't have photoshop so by the rules that were on that trademark on the gear I can't pay someone to make me any so I would have to find a team to join?

basically what dylan said, but in the sense of making SAF's to sell to other people with their names and numbers on it, it depends on what the original creator of the gear says. For, you can make SAF's and team packs and sell them all you want, you just can't sell the PSD. But this is also my thing, other creators aren't as lenient as I am as far as that goes

[phobiiaz]

I kinda just got into the community and I'm a bit confused by the "rules". I was watching a guy on twitch put numbers on gear and the trademark said something like you can only use the gear for yourself and your team and you can't make team packs or gear for friends. This "rule" kinda confused me because didn't they make their gear on a model some guy made? By their own logic shouldn't they only be able to use that model to make gear for themselves and their team and not be able to sell it? It seems like its a bit hypocritical. I don't mean to start any arguments I'd just like some logical discussion on what the skinning "rules" should be. I was wanting to get some gear for myself but I don't have photoshop so by the rules that were on that trademark on the gear I can't pay someone to make me any so I would have to find a team to join?

basically what dylan said, but in the sense of making SAF's to sell to other people with their names and numbers on it, it depends on what the original creator of the gear says. For, you can make SAF's and team packs and sell them all you want, you just can't sell the PSD. But this is also my thing, other creators aren't as lenient as I am as far as that goes

For your gear, you have your own rules. My rules are stated on ever post and are in ever PSD that I sell too. It’s not about leniency, it’s about respecting the creators rules on their work. Other creators have their own rules. But they aren’t set rules across the board for creation for sim and it’s actually hurting the community as a whole. If creators were on the same page, there would be less confusion.

[Freddy694]

I kinda just got into the community and I'm a bit confused by the "rules". I was watching a guy on twitch put numbers on gear and the trademark said something like you can only use the gear for yourself and your team and you can't make team packs or gear for friends. This "rule" kinda confused me because didn't they make their gear on a model some guy made? By their own logic shouldn't they only be able to use that model to make gear for themselves and their team and not be able to sell it? It seems like its a bit hypocritical. I don't mean to start any arguments I'd just like some logical discussion on what the skinning "rules" should be. I was wanting to get some gear for myself but I don't have photoshop so by the rules that were on that trademark on the gear I can't pay someone to make me any so I would have to find a team to join?

basically what dylan said, but in the sense of making SAF's to sell to other people with their names and numbers on it, it depends on what the original creator of the gear says. For, you can make SAF's and team packs and sell them all you want, you just can't sell the PSD. But this is also my thing, other creators aren't as lenient as I am as far as that goes

For your gear, you have your own rules. My rules are stated on ever post and are in ever PSD that I sell too. It’s not about leniency, it’s about respecting the creators rules on their work. Other creators have their own rules. But they aren’t set rules across the board for creation for sim and it’s actually hurting the community as a whole. If creators were on the same page, there would be less confusion.

Couldn’t agree more with you on that one Phobiiaz. and to what lancer said, it’s more about the pride we take in what we do that makes us have these strict rules about reselling it no matter if it’s a saf or psd. It’s what we have put multiple years into learning and perfecting mostly on our own and always learning and improving the quality and having the drive to keep on delivering and bettering the overall quality and presentation of our work.

That’s what makes us care about what we make.

[IGotTheSpeed]

I kinda just got into the community and I'm a bit confused by the "rules". I was watching a guy on twitch put numbers on gear and the trademark said something like you can only use the gear for yourself and your team and you can't make team packs or gear for friends. This "rule" kinda confused me because didn't they make their gear on a model some guy made? By their own logic shouldn't they only be able to use that model to make gear for themselves and their team and not be able to sell it? It seems like its a bit hypocritical. I don't mean to start any arguments I'd just like some logical discussion on what the skinning "rules" should be. I was wanting to get some gear for myself but I don't have photoshop so by the rules that were on that trademark on the gear I can't pay someone to make me any so I would have to find a team to join?

I have to agree with lancer, whats going on now is kinda killing the game with skinning. I just recently bought gear to make a team pack and was bummed to hear I can't make sets for my friends that wanted some. Like what's the point of buying gear? Even on the jre v2 post it says do not release public versions of the gear on this model so what you're saying is a bit hypocritical. Also this is copyright gear we are talking about that companies like fox have copyrighted so you're not necessarily on a moral highground. I respect you're guy's abilities but I don't really agree with the process you guy's are carrying out. Just my two cents on the matter.

2. You are not Allowed to:
*Share the PSD, blend file, Saved PNG files or JM files with anyone. JM files And saved pngs is obviously okay to share as long as it's in a team pack (No Public gear version please.)
*Resell or Use to trade for other Paid for Content

[Freddy694]

I kinda just got into the community and I'm a bit confused by the "rules". I was watching a guy on twitch put numbers on gear and the trademark said something like you can only use the gear for yourself and your team and you can't make team packs or gear for friends. This "rule" kinda confused me because didn't they make their gear on a model some guy made? By their own logic shouldn't they only be able to use that model to make gear for themselves and their team and not be able to sell it? It seems like its a bit hypocritical. I don't mean to start any arguments I'd just like some logical discussion on what the skinning "rules" should be. I was wanting to get some gear for myself but I don't have photoshop so by the rules that were on that trademark on the gear I can't pay someone to make me any so I would have to find a team to join?

I have to agree with lancer, whats going on now is kinda killing the game with skinning. I just recently bought gear to make a team pack and was bummed to hear I can't make sets for my friends that wanted some. Like what's the point of buying gear? Even on the jre v2 post it says do not release public versions of the gear on this model so what you're saying is a bit hypocritical. Also this is copyright gear we are talking about that companies like fox have copyrighted so you're not necessarily on a moral highground. I respect you're guy's abilities but I don't really agree with the process you guy's are carrying out. Just my two cents on the matter.

2. You are not Allowed to:
*Share the PSD, blend file, Saved PNG files or JM files with anyone. JM files And saved pngs is obviously okay to share as long as it's in a team pack (No Public gear version please.)
*Resell or Use to trade for other Paid for Content

The problem isnt making gear for your friends, the problem we have is one person buy my gear, he then goes to random discords saying ill throw ur name/number on this for $5 and by that way resells it, same with teampacks if that one person charges i.e $25 to make gear for a random team he is reselling the gear that i made that took me multiple hours some times multiple days/weeks to do but he does name/number in 5 min and charge more than What the creator does for the rights to the gear.

In my case your allowed to do stuff for your friends and all as long as you dont resell it (charge for the gear) as long as it is a scrammed saf and not the psd

[phobiiaz]

I have to agree with lancer, whats going on now is kinda killing the game with skinning. I just recently bought gear to make a team pack and was bummed to hear I can't make sets for my friends that wanted some. Like what's the point of buying gear? Even on the jre v2 post it says do not release public versions of the gear on this model so what you're saying is a bit hypocritical. Also this is copyright gear we are talking about that companies like fox have copyrighted so you're not necessarily on a moral highground. I respect you're guy's abilities but I don't really agree with the process you guy's are carrying out. Just my two cents on the matter.

2. You are not Allowed to:
*Share the PSD, blend file, Saved PNG files or JM files with anyone. JM files And saved pngs is obviously okay to share as long as it's in a team pack (No Public gear version please.)
*Resell or Use to trade for other Paid for Content

If I’m not mistaken, those rules that are set in place are for JRE model and Skins that are apart of that model. What we make are just skins that go on his template. We don’t actually sell his model. That’s why when we sell our PSDs, it has nothing pertaining what JRE has done besides the “template” he gives us. No blender file, no JMs. Also a portion of my rule states “No Paid packs for your friends”.. that doesn’t mean you can’t make a free SAFs for your friends. These rules are set in place to stop the reselling of the content that we work so hard on to put out.

Side note, what actually is killing the game is the reselling. Because of the reselling, it’s forcing the creators to make stricter rules or not even want to make gear or models in the first place.

Also big companies know we make these things for this game. If we weren’t able to make these things for this game, the game would have been dead a long time ago. What keeps this game fresh are the updates, new tracks, new models, and gear. That’s why as creators we keep going because we love motocross, we love this sport, and some of us can’t ride in real life.. so this is as close as we can get to riding or being apart of this sport that we love. It’s a much bigger picture than everyone thinks. I understand from a consumers perspective that it’s harder to want to buy the gear because there are more restrictions, but you have to look at it from a creators perspective and not just in a vacuum of a consumer.

[phobiiaz]

I don’t know why what I wrote got put into the quote, but my response is underneath what I quoted from IGotTheSpeed. Right underneath the quote from JRE

[phobiiaz]

The problem isnt making gear for your friends, the problem we have is one person buy my gear, he then goes to random discords saying ill throw ur name/number on this for $5 and by that way resells it, same with teampacks if that one person charges i.e $25 to make gear for a random team he is reselling the gear that i made that took me multiple hours some times multiple days/weeks to do but he does name/number in 5 min and charge more than What the creator does for the rights to the gear.

In my case your allowed to do stuff for your friends and all as long as you dont resell it (charge for the gear) as long as it is a scrammed saf and not the psd

Totally agree with you Freddy, that’s exactly my feeling towards it as well. My rules are basically the same. I think people aren’t reading the full rules that I put out. It specifically says “Please note.. if you purchase this PSD, ONLY YOU can have this PSD. Also note, you are allowed to use this PSD for your teampack only, NO MULTIPLE TEAMS/PAYED PRIVATEER KITS FOR OTHERS.” That doesn’t mean you can’t make a pack for your friends for free

[KR-Money]

Depends on whoever made the gear, just ask them what they would and wouldn't be okay with you doing. For me personally, I don't really give a shit if you use my gear for yourself or other team packs; just give me credit if you make a post somewhere. Of course, this also means I won't put in as much effort as someone who would enforce these "rules" (it's more like etiquette the way I see it), but I'd say that's a fair deal. I can't always be bothered to go out of my way to see who's downloading what from me and whether or not they're making a profit off of it

[supercrosspig]

I've been in the community for less then a year so I may be wrong but it seems like gear pricing is far higher now than it's ever been. It seems like there is a lot of people that can't afford gear prices so of course they're gonna rip or buy from someone who sells it for cheaper (not saying I support it, just something that people obviously would do). I think a price drop in PSD's would obviously create way more sales and most likely more profit. Kids are going to be less inclined to rip and more inclined if they see something at a lower price. I know a few gear creators are quite adamant about not doing this so I'll offer an alternative solution that I don't believe has been discussed. Why not you as the gear creator, sell PNGs with the person's name and number (they could even send you the number layout to make it less work for you and its how they want it) to them for much cheaper like $5-$10 a PSD. There would be no reason for them to buy from these people in discord because you're selling at the same price so youre picking up customers that were previously buying second hand. Then sell each PSD to your gear for like $20-$25 or whatever you'd like and they have the freedom to make and sell it in team packs. That way the community would hopefully see the re-emergence of higher teir team pack makers yet your gear won't be ripped and sold second hand in discord for cheaper like you said. I just view this as an opportunity for the gear creators to make more money, gear wouldn't be ripped nearly as much, skins would be cheaper for the normal am or privateer, and you could see talented team pack creators in the community like there used to be.

[KR-Money]

I've been in the community for less then a year so I may be wrong but it seems like gear pricing is far higher now than it's ever been. It seems like there is a lot of people that can't afford gear prices so of course they're gonna rip or buy from someone who sells it for cheaper (not saying I support it, just something that people obviously would do). I think a price drop in PSD's would obviously create way more sales and most likely more profit. Kids are going to be less inclined to rip and more inclined if they see something at a lower price. I know a few gear creators are quite adamant about not doing this so I'll offer an alternative solution that I don't believe has been discussed. Why not you as the gear creator, sell PNGs with the person's name and number (they could even send you the number layout to make it less work for you and its how they want it) to them for much cheaper like $5-$10 a PSD. There would be no reason for them to buy from these people in discord because you're selling at the same price so youre picking up customers that were previously buying second hand. Then sell each PSD to your gear for like $20-$25 or whatever you'd like and they have the freedom to make and sell it in team packs. That way the community would hopefully see the re-emergence of higher teir team pack makers yet your gear won't be ripped and sold second hand in discord for cheaper like you said. I just view this as an opportunity for the gear creators to make more money, gear wouldn't be ripped nearly as much, skins would be cheaper for the normal am or privateer, and you could see talented team pack creators in the community like there used to be.

Unless it's a big collection of gear I'm releasing all at once, I stick to selling my PSDs for no more than $15, with $5-10 being the average. Half of the DMs I get about that still complain that I don't make free stuff Even if I were to start making models, I still would keep it under the price of the game itself, no matter how long it took. Something about buying 1 piece of DLC that costs more than to just play the game never sat well with me haha. As for your idea, it probably doesn't help in my case since I don't mention it, but I'd have no problem doing that if they'd just ask. Just depends on how busy I am that week. Of course, other gear makers may/probably will disagree with this, but that's just my 10 cents. (The 2 cents is free )

[Freddy694]

I've been in the community for less then a year so I may be wrong but it seems like gear pricing is far higher now than it's ever been. It seems like there is a lot of people that can't afford gear prices so of course they're gonna rip or buy from someone who sells it for cheaper (not saying I support it, just something that people obviously would do). I think a price drop in PSD's would obviously create way more sales and most likely more profit. Kids are going to be less inclined to rip and more inclined if they see something at a lower price. I know a few gear creators are quite adamant about not doing this so I'll offer an alternative solution that I don't believe has been discussed. Why not you as the gear creator, sell PNGs with the person's name and number (they could even send you the number layout to make it less work for you and its how they want it) to them for much cheaper like $5-$10 a PSD. There would be no reason for them to buy from these people in discord because you're selling at the same price so youre picking up customers that were previously buying second hand. Then sell each PSD to your gear for like $20-$25 or whatever you'd like and they have the freedom to make and sell it in team packs. That way the community would hopefully see the re-emergence of higher teir team pack makers yet your gear won't be ripped and sold second hand in discord for cheaper like you said. I just view this as an opportunity for the gear creators to make more money, gear wouldn't be ripped nearly as much, skins would be cheaper for the normal am or privateer, and you could see talented team pack creators in the community like there used to be.

Trust me cheaper prices isnt helping anything in this case, I’ve always been the cheapest gear guy (from what I know) and I haven’t made any gear that haven’t been ripped/resold, even if it’s $5/10 or $100/200 havent made any difference. Rippers always finds their ways to your stuff no matter What. And the part you Said about cheaper=more sales and profit ive tried multiple times, i make more profit if i sell at really high price to just a few trusted persons than if i sell to everyone that wants to buy it at a low price.

[Freddy694]

And not to mention a lot of stuff ive made is free too so There is for sure a lot to choose from if you dont want to pay the price for gear