2018 AMA Supercross Rd01 Anaheim 1

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FlyinHigh
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Re: 2018 AMA Supercross Rd01 Anaheim 1

Postby FlyinHigh » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:31 pm

RSmithDRIFT wrote:I'm not taking the time to quote all of you... That's just purely rediculous.

So here is my video response to all. With GOOD CONSISTENT riding on the 2013 track. Listen to my words and understand what I am saying.


I could go faster one hand on the remote
R.I.P. Jantz Grodzicki #96

RSmithDRIFT
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Re: 2018 AMA Supercross Rd01 Anaheim 1

Postby RSmithDRIFT » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:56 pm

m121c wrote:
@12:10 wrote:And I ride perfectly fine... on a track that isn't badly scaled like the new 17/18 SX tracks


I don't think you are fully understanding what 1:1 actually means. 1:1 is the scaling factor. Meaning this: For every unit of measurement IRL, is a unit of measurement in game. Simplified even more, a 65ft SX triple IRL is a 65ft triple in game. THAT'S WHY ITS REALISTIC.

Those tracks you call normal are 1.25+ in scale, meaning the jumps are larger by a factor of 1.25 or more. For example a 65ft triple, with a standard 10ft take off and 22ft width at 1.25 scale is actaully: 27.5ft wide x 13.125ft tall x 81.25ft. This also affects the slope of the take off and landings. You turn diameter now goes from roughly 48ft (22ft for each lane plus 4ft in between) to 60 ft. In distance traveled (circumference) that is 58.5ft difference on the outside of the berm. That's 58.5ft more travel you get to accelerate across. Now the spacing is also affected if it say 5-8ft from the exit of the corner to the first take off, that now becomes 6.25-10ft. The ingame bikes do not simulate all the IRL physics, it's just not possible. It can't fully calculate the forces that we experience when we actually ride. Air resistance, engine inertia, flex of chassis, physical characteristics of dirt, etc.

With all that said. There is a reason amateur tracks in IRL are also very differently scaled. It takes a lot of skill and talent to ride a real SX track fast. I expect it to be no different in a simulator, I would actually expect it to be harder due to limiting factors of control. This is why those "normal tracks" are scaled in this way, to achieve maximum play-ability for a larger base of racers, while still maintaining that realistic "feeling" of riding a real supercross track. Simple terms, not enough players are good enough to race a 1:1 supercross track.

The scaling is not wrong. You are just bad at the game, and if you want to enjoy the track for what it is, then you will have to improve to get to that point.

An argument can be made about the traction, but Jay is also right in that regard. I have said it countless times, I have always felt traction has had the least priority when it's comes to simulation a realistic track/environment for this game. He might not of nailed it on the first go, but there should be limitations to how fast a bike can go in a 100ft straight away regardless, and if it can go faster than it should in game vs IRL something is wrong. You also have to remember, we don't use a clutch in this game like they do IRL. (Well unless you are mutant). An auto clutch is not the same as using a manual clutch.

By numbers, statistics, and calculations I would have to say this track would have to be the most realistic this game has seen by far.



How did you manage to get the opposite of what i have been saying? 1:1 is perfect, this track would be perfect if he hadnt fucked up the resistance value of the surface. Jesus christ did you not hear me hating on bad overscaling this whole time??

RSmithDRIFT
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Re: 2018 AMA Supercross Rd01 Anaheim 1

Postby RSmithDRIFT » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:19 pm

Its like you guys hear something other than what im saying, and yes i do vary my throttle alot, but due to drifting my technique is to "blip" and i dont always blip wide open. But idk why im even responding, you retards will literally reply as if id said the opposite of this somehow. :roll:

If you ran my advanced stability and fov/screen size distance you would understand why i am slower and why my favorite tracks are the true 1:1 scale national tracks with proper traction and ive been litterally begging for a 1:1 replica supercross track set with proper traction.

But none of yall will even try, cause you dont want sim, you want a game, where you can do all the stupid unrealistic stuff you want. And for some reason you want it to be a difficult to learn game, so you can feel elitist af about your ability to do so, then mistankingly call it a sim as though high difficulty and learning curve were the only pre rquisites of a simulation. Lmfao. My god. I literally cant even with yall. Have fun with your "sim" lmfao. Im dying over here at the level of retardation. I think yall ride w/o your helmets too often and have taken a few too many blows to the head.

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Re: 2018 AMA Supercross Rd01 Anaheim 1

Postby RSmithDRIFT » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:25 pm

Oh, and heres my formula i spend the majority of my free time since 2011 creating and just finished recently that everyone whos tested the result of agrees is perfect physics, mind blowingly better than all others currently available.

Dry grip = 2.0 - hardness + griptemppress cold/10 + (width x void ratio inverse) - camber lat value
(Hardness is durometer value)

Wet grip = dry grip x (wet rating + void ratio) (wet rating = square cuts = 0.6, angled cuts = 0.8, big angle cut tread blocks = 0.6, big square cut blocks = 0.4, slicks = 0.2, add 0.1 if silica based compound)

Radius = radius of tire

Radiusrpm = width/100000

Width = width

Rim = rim radius, rim spring rate, rim damping, rim spark speed

Springbase = spring rate of tire without air

Springkpa = spring rate added per kpa of air pressure

Damper = damping rate of tire

Speedeffects = speed ratingx2, 10

Loadsense initial value = final grip inverse / final load raise first value by 2

Loadsense final grip = tread rating inverse, 0.85 max

Final load = load ratingx10

Peak initial value = softness/10 x (tread depth + tread rating) (tread depth = 0/32=0, 10/32=1.0)

Latpeak final value = initial value + ((sidewall hieght ratio/width)/springbase/10000(min value = 3))

Longpeak final value = longpeak initial value

Camberlatlong = drylat + camberlat x loadsense final grip x 2 + ((sidewall hieght ratiox10 / width) / springbase/10000(min value = 3), width, width

Rolling resistance = pneumatic trailx10000000 x 2 x (1 + softness + long tread rating) + 2500

Pneumatictrail = radius / width + springbase adjusted (10000=0.5, 50000=0.1, 70000=-0.1)

Heating = softness/3 x (tread depth inverse + 1), same value/10

Transfer = 0.015, 0.0015, 0.00015

Heatdist = camber x 4, springbase adjusted (10000=1450, 50000=1650)

Airtreadrate = 0.002

Wearrate = treadwear rating/1000000 (treadwear rating = 0=1.0, 1000=0)

Softness = inverse hardness scaled (0.5=1.0, 1.0=0.5) + griptemppress cold/10

Temperatures = softnessx100, 20

Optimum pressure = springbase adjusted (10000=110, 50000=70), springbase adjusted (10000=0.055, 50000=0.035)

Griptemppress = compound, compound, width (compound = vulcanized = 1.0, silica = 0.5, race = 1.5)

But you know, dont listen to me. I clearly dont know what im talking about.

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FlyinHigh
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Re: 2018 AMA Supercross Rd01 Anaheim 1

Postby FlyinHigh » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 pm

RSmithDRIFT wrote:Its like you guys hear something other than what im saying, and yes i do vary my throttle alot, but due to drifting my technique is to "blip" and i dont always blip wide open. But idk why im even responding, you retards will literally reply as if id said the opposite of this somehow. :roll:

If you ran my advanced stability and fov/screen size distance you would understand why i am slower and why my favorite tracks are the true 1:1 scale national tracks with proper traction and ive been litterally begging for a 1:1 replica supercross track set with proper traction.

But none of yall will even try, cause you dont want sim, you want a game, where you can do all the stupid unrealistic stuff you want. And for some reason you want it to be a difficult to learn game, so you can feel elitist af about your ability to do so, then mistankingly call it a sim as though high difficulty and learning curve were the only pre rquisites of a simulation. Lmfao. My god. I literally cant even with yall. Have fun with your "sim" lmfao. Im dying over here at the level of retardation. I think yall ride w/o your helmets too often and have taken a few too many blows to the head.


So again to clear things up, you handicap yourself and expect us to do the same cause you think we're going too fast? I've been playing this game since 2012. If I spent 6 years riding all the time IRL I'm pretty sure I'd be pro by now, in fact I know I would be. Being able to go fast IRL also has a steep learning curve and takes a long time, why wouldn't it take a long time in a sim game as well? As far as the traction on jays track goes yeah it could use some tweaking but in order to keep things at realistic speeds and the lines realistic as well there has to be a lot of surface drag. The only other thing that could be done is making all the bikes slower. The only retardation here is the bit you're exuding in all your posts under this thread. Go ride for a few years and familiarize yourself with the sport and riding a motorcycle before you try to argue with real riders how the physics of riding a motorcycle works and what is actually possible in real life. On top of that you clearly struggle to even play the game as it is so I suggest you work on that and get some experience under your belt before trying to tell people who have been here for years whats good and whats not.
R.I.P. Jantz Grodzicki #96

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FlyinHigh
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Re: 2018 AMA Supercross Rd01 Anaheim 1

Postby FlyinHigh » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:04 pm

Whats next? You gunna go to a real race and tell the pros they're going too fast and need to slow down because you have experience riding in your backyard a few times and can't go anywhere near as fast as them? I do believe you also mentioned in your video that we have handle bars that twist and tilt. IDK what you've ridden but most of the steering going on is produced by leaning and turning the handlebars is used to adjust the angle of that lean.
R.I.P. Jantz Grodzicki #96

ryanmx25
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Re: 2018 AMA Supercross Rd01 Anaheim 1

Postby ryanmx25 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:49 pm

Wait this guy who has never rode a dirt bike is still telling us how a dirt bike simulator should ride? and we are the retarded ones? huh?
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Jakob Hubbard
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Re: 2018 AMA Supercross Rd01 Anaheim 1

Postby Jakob Hubbard » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:30 pm

I don't understand why this guy is still going off. Like honestly just go play your 2013 tracks if you love them so much.
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Re: 2018 AMA Supercross Rd01 Anaheim 1

Postby yzmxer608 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:38 pm

I know you have the roll limit factor to zero, which disables it. But if you wanted to disable it with the roll limit angle it needs to be 180 not zero. Having the angle on zero would apply the factor all the time, at 180 it would never be used.
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Re: 2018 AMA Supercross Rd01 Anaheim 1

Postby 137 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:04 am

Jakob Hubbard wrote:I don't understand why this guy is still going off. Like honestly just go play your 2013 tracks if you love them so much.

ryanmx25 wrote:Wait this guy who has never rode a dirt bike is still telling us how a dirt bike simulator should ride? and we are the retarded ones? huh?


Couldn’t agree more!
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m121c
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Re: 2018 AMA Supercross Rd01 Anaheim 1

Postby m121c » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:46 am

Some quotes from your video( I didn't watch all 18 minutes because fuck it's painful to watch).

@1:56: "When the traction is correct... which is on 2013 and most outdoor tracks... which is not correct on 16/16 SX tracks that's a ridiculous traction.. as I have not found a setup that can bring the realistic speeds on them"

You are not understanding that you can't get to those speeds, not because of any setup, it's because you are just bad at the game. I'm really starting to get the vibe you really don't have much experience with the sport. When you go straight into a corner, turn tight, (squaring the corner) you will not carry the same speed as if you rounded it in a wider arc. You are casing what is literally the easiest triple jumps in the game. You are coming out of the corner in 1st gear, probably in terrible gearing, and hardly making the jumps. Meanwhile, a pro, can come out of a corner 5-10 mph faster that what would be considered realistic and quad-5 an entire section and get through it in two jumps. When you blip the throttle, you are losing ALOT of speed vs someone who can roll the throttle on.

@9:04: "It's all about momentum when you have high resistance, it's like having less power... which is why bog is a great way to slow unrealistic setups down... but I'm using a realistic setup"

Again it's not your setup. In fact you're setup is not realistic dude. Yes momentum is crazy important in supercross, it's important in racing in general. Do you not hear Ralph and Jeff yell that virtually every weekend? It's the difference between the 250 LCQ guys, and the top 10 main event guys. You're setup has nothing to do with how the traction affects you when you let off, your setup only affects the handling characteristics of your steering, leaning, and riders resistance to movement.

@12:10: "And I ride perfectly fine... on a normal track that isn't fucked up... that isn't badly scaled like the new 17/18 SX tracks and isn't ridiculous boggy"

This is where you might assume is the reason I start to know you don't know what you are talking about, and you assume I am getting the opposite of what you are saying. You are word for word talking about scale here. You are also not getting that without the resistance (which most definitely happens IRL with engine braking and the dampening from the ground), that GOOD players would be able to reach very unrealistic speeds on a 1:1 scaled track. Which would mean to say something traction wise would be off. And yes, when you roll around the corners blipping the throttle on a 450 in 1st/2nd gear with an auto clutch your bike is not going to jolt to life like it just did a couple lines of cocaine. It will bog.

@13:50: "And Idk what scale this track is to be honest..I'm just going to assume it's 1:1... because it feels the most 1:1 to me"

Again more scale talk. You are wrong, 2013 is most definitely not 1:1 scaled. It's not even admittedly supposed to be realistic, it's supposed to be what races best with the most amount of racers and "feels" real. It feels real because there is an inherit disconnect from controller to the rider, we don't have the ability to control the bikes as we would IRL. When we scale the tracks up and allow the bikes to go fast to accommodate we effectively make it easier to control the rider and race what would be considered a very large supercross track, which "feels" real. (Even though 2013 certainly did not if you have ever ridden anything remotely close to a real supercross track)

Instead of taking the road of "I know more than all you retards about a sport I clearly don't understand" you should probably open your ears up a little and listen before you keep embarrassing yourself.

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Re: 2018 AMA Supercross Rd01 Anaheim 1

Postby RSmithDRIFT » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:11 am

Look, I dont race online, in any game, cause I hate lag. Now, I'm not asking for much, just a version of the 1:1 scale tracks that has a normal resistance value. I dont expect the majority to use my settings. I dont care if anyone else does frankly. I have them and I know they feel right and give realistic speeds with my riding style. I just want 100% real tracks with proper dirt physics and not a work around to slow down cheaters. We have those workarounds in the sim racing/drift comunity too. Ever hit a wall and it grabbed you like a SOB unrealistically? Yea, on purpose, because people are cheating fag tards. That's the equivalence of the resistance value used on this track. It's a work around to stop the fag tards from cheating. And if that's what it takes online that's fine. But if your going to do that to a track. Fucking release a version of it without the anti cheat. Even if it's NEVER used online, IDGAF cause I dont race online. I just like riding in a simulated manner. So when something prevents that, yes I get pissed. 2016/17/18 rf/emf tracks have rediculous scaling and jump shapes as the anti cheat. They wont stop doing so, and I understand why. I thought I'd found hope in this track because it doesnt have those anti cheats, it has one that is easily interchangeable to be enabled or not. So I asked for a anti cheat disabled version, and even offered to pay for it. This is how fucking egotistical and retarded you idiots are. You escalated a simple "id like a version of this track without any anti cheats, and I'll pay you for it" into this... ALL OF THIS. Good fucking job. So done with this btw. Didnt even read whats above me. Good day morons. Idiocracy is real. Sorry that I'm not a cheating fag tard like you all CLEARLY are.

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Re: 2018 AMA Supercross Rd01 Anaheim 1

Postby Jay » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:25 am

Look dude... We are all thinking it, but.....



You're a fucking idiot :lol:
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Re: 2018 AMA Supercross Rd01 Anaheim 1

Postby Fro77 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:58 am

That was by far the best forum post I have ever read. I wish all of it would fit in my signature.
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Re: 2018 AMA Supercross Rd01 Anaheim 1

Postby Bryce#313 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:02 pm

RSmithDRIFT wrote:Look, I dont race online, in any game, cause I hate lag. Now, I'm not asking for much, just a version of the 1:1 scale tracks that has a normal resistance value. I dont expect the majority to use my settings. I dont care if anyone else does frankly. I have them and I know they feel right and give realistic speeds with my riding style. I just want 100% real tracks with proper dirt physics and not a work around to slow down cheaters. We have those workarounds in the sim racing/drift comunity too. Ever hit a wall and it grabbed you like a SOB unrealistically? Yea, on purpose, because people are cheating fag tards. That's the equivalence of the resistance value used on this track. It's a work around to stop the fag tards from cheating. And if that's what it takes online that's fine. But if your going to do that to a track. Fucking release a version of it without the anti cheat. Even if it's NEVER used online, IDGAF cause I dont race online. I just like riding in a simulated manner. So when something prevents that, yes I get pissed. 2016/17/18 rf/emf tracks have rediculous scaling and jump shapes as the anti cheat. They wont stop doing so, and I understand why. I thought I'd found hope in this track because it doesnt have those anti cheats, it has one that is easily interchangeable to be enabled or not. So I asked for a anti cheat disabled version, and even offered to pay for it. This is how fucking egotistical and retarded you idiots are. You escalated a simple "id like a version of this track without any anti cheats, and I'll pay you for it" into this... ALL OF THIS. Good fucking job. So done with this btw. Didnt even read whats above me. Good day morons. Idiocracy is real. Sorry that I'm not a cheating fag tard like you all CLEARLY are.

You make your own setups to your riding style, you can make your own tracks to your riding style. Problem solved.
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