Political Debate Thread

[SMR 510RR]

Anyone read any of the emails dumped by Wikileaks from DNC? Some bad looking stuff in there. Luckily for them nothing will change and the sheep will continue on as if nothing has happened.

"eat my butt" -Karina Marquez

[TeamHavocRacing]

I would like to see the wikileaks from both before I passed any judgement on either. Most of you are already decided. Why call this a debate thread when it's apparently not happening at all? Both sides are politicians. Think about that FIRST! Since when could you really tell me they had your best interests at heart? Trump's too radical and won't get anywhere with divided house and congress(don't forget he was a LIBERAL not too long ago). Clinton might have a better chance of compromise with beltway politics, but has TONS of political baggage going in. You stick WAYYYYY too much with this "us or them" mantra. Too young to be tempered with experience or jaded. Vote a couple times for president and see what happens afterward and then come tell me about your politics, kids. I watched Nixon get impeached and then resign on our 12 channel TV. Get wise to what politics and religion really represent.

[Cbear12]

[m121c]

I would like to see the wikileaks from both before I passed any judgement on either. Most of you are already decided. Why call this a debate thread when it's apparently not happening at all? Both sides are politicians. Think about that FIRST! Since when could you really tell me they had your best interests at heart? Trump's too radical and won't get anywhere with divided house and congress(don't forget he was a LIBERAL not too long ago). Clinton might have a better chance of compromise with beltway politics, but has TONS of political baggage going in. You stick WAYYYYY too much with this "us or them" mantra. Too young to be tempered with experience or jaded. Vote a couple times for president and see what happens afterward and then come tell me about your politics, kids. I watched Nixon get impeached and then resign on our 12 channel TV. Get wise to what politics and religion really represent.

To be fair about the this not being a debate... no one here has brought any alternative thoughts to the table, how can you debate something if everyone agrees? I'd be more than happy to try to debate with someone if someone would...

Anyone read any of the emails dumped by Wikileaks from DNC? Some bad looking stuff in there. Luckily for them nothing will change and the sheep will continue on as if nothing has happened.

"eat my butt" -Karina Marquez

It will blow over... per usual. The media would much rather focus on self adsorbed and ignorant actors and comedians opinion's against Trump. Will be interesting how Bernie responds... no matter what though I think it's bad for the Democrats. Because now Bernie voters are going to feel duped, and if Bernie still follows along with the Hillary they will be even more enraged. That speech should be something... Cruz 2.0 speech?

Anyone have thought's on the twitter ban on Milo? I think Twitter was out of line.

[Wahlamt]

Throwing this in here for anyone that wants a laugh, lose hope in humanity or just get sad.

To point out, 37.07 is quite funny. A joke about feminists being a threat and aggressive, then some smart girl goes screams and smashes their signs proving a point that they aren't even trying to make, lol. Also the tv coverage starting at 1:12.41 is quite fun to see. What I really do enjoy here is that both of them are arguing, not screaming, yelling and being mad. A lot of the time, people just goes bananas and should be locked up, but both of them are keeping a normal tone. The girl is obviously way off, people earning more than 250.000$ a year should pay 90% taxes? Gtfo plz. Also if you earn 220.000$ should that be a normal tax on that? Wouldn't it make sense to linearly add upp to 90% up to 250.000$ then 250.000$ have a static fee of 90% tax? I don't support the idea since it's ridiculous, but you could at least add some amount of smart in it. She does show a lot of passion which is great, but I think she'd need to go back to the drawing table and rethink some things to actually present a solid viable point that would be able to put in act. Sure it sucks that some people earn more money in a few months than my entire family will during our lifetime, but hey, it's the same for everyone. And anyone can come up with a great invention and get rich, you just need an idea and some luck. Same for everyone, no need to be salty. I've never had a lot of cash flow in our family. We've never been short of money, but we've never had too much of it either. If you just know how to prioritize and save up for stuff you want, also not buy unnecessary stuff, most people will be fine, at least here in Sweden. Common sense is great.

[rideblue56]

Well atleast the Bernie people don't want Hillary either..

http://ilovemyfreedom.org/video-bernie- ... e-hillary/

[Big Smooth one3]

Most of you are already decided. Why call this a debate thread when it's apparently not happening at all?

To be fair about the this not being a debate... no one here has brought any alternative thoughts to the table, how can you debate something if everyone agrees? I'd be more than happy to try to debate with someone if someone would...

While you have to read through Havoc's way of delivering his message, I think I know what he's getting at re:debate. Personally, I don't fully agree with everything you and others have said in here specifically regarding the candidates and your/others' views of them and their campaigns, but I also have zero interest in turning this into a full-fledged "debate". While I don't quite have the life experience Havoc does, I imagine he would agree that such a "debate" in a setting like this wouldn't be much of a debate at all, just a huge "your stupid, I'm right" pissing contest. I don't categorize myself into 1 of 2 political parties, but I know those who do hold firmly to one of those are more likely to jump to conclusions about others and stereotype them into the opposing viewpoint. My strongest held political belief is that others have all the right in the world (or at least our country) to have their own beliefs, and who am I to judge them for that? I also realize that approach to political conversation is not at the forefront of most peoples minds when this period of time rolls around every 4 years, and I don't think we are going to solve any world problems here, hence my reluctance. Rather, what I find interesting about this thread is simply hearing everyone's perspective on some of the broader-strokes of this election, because if I already knew everything and everyone else was wrong, then what's the point of a discussion/debate?

Let's try this as an example, or at least I'll throw you a bone here

I don't think the Hillary email scandal is as big a deal as most make it to be. Was she wrong? Yea, don't think anyone would disagree with that. Should she be locked up, as was chanted at the RNC? IMO, no. Does the "scandal" show an incidence of poor judgement? Absolutely. Does it wipe away every shred of credibility she has, every ounce of trust in her judgement? Again, IMO, no. Now, if I were offered a better alternative choice to Hillary, maybe I am up in arms about this as others are, which is why I haven't gone out of my way to call those people out (note: not trying to do so now). It's all about perspective, which I recognize, and when we're forced into a situation with 2 shitty options, it's inevitable for sides to become polarized.

I want to make this clear - I'm not advocating for Clinton, saying "oh well, water under the bridge" about the email scandal, or chastising those who believe it to be one of the most important factors in choosing our next president. Since we were talking about this being a "debate," I figured I would play devils advocate and just lob this soft-ball up for you all...hope we can all still be friends haha

[SMR 510RR]

People have been jailed for less as far as mishandling classified information goes.

This election is about supreme court seats, nothing else as far as I am concerned. If Hilary gets to appoint 2+ seats this country will never recover.

[m121c]

@Bigsmooth - I guess I should rephrase what I meant, what has actually been said so fair, for the most part, haa\s been within the lines of agreement. Didn't mean to make it sound like I was concluding that we are all on the same page and a us vs left type of persona. I agree, I mean debating is usually a way of finding a middle ground or solutions, we are doing non of that but I guess it's kind of fun if done right and it's a good way to understand the opposing view and be informed on both sides.

I like to say I'm a conservative independent, I don't claim to be with any party, although obviously more (most) of my views side with Republicans more than Democrats. However, I feel both party's have their problems and both need to work on things.

I respectfully disagree with you about the emails, I find it to be really big deal. In my view it is shady and I think we only know the half of it. Now can that be proven..no.. atleast not yet.. however to do what she did with no apparent reason? Then lie about it, not just to the American people, but Congress, the FBI, all while under oath? I can't lie to a Police Officer of the United States, why should Hillary get to lie under oath and to the FBI? Political immunity is mainly what makes it a big deal to me, nothing character or election wise.

It's funny because I am on the other side of the dinner table. I find the things she has done to be a big deal but some of things Trump has said to not be a big deal. Does he say stupid things? Yes. I think he is a terrible speaker. Does he say sometimes borderline ignorant and egotistical? Yes, I do. But what I find it to be of less as a deal as some of Hillary's scandals is because they are just words.. contrast to actions, which Hillary's are borderline criminal.

[Big Smooth one3]

This election is about supreme court seats, nothing else as far as I am concerned.

Agreed, this is a huge underlying factor that gets mentioned but I don't think some fully grasp the importance of.

Full reply

Thanks for your comments and levelheadedness. I'm always game for a good discussion about serious things, perhaps I jumped to the conclusion that it couldn't be done here without flaming back and forth - apologies, shouldn't have sold you guys short there.

I find the things she has done to be a big deal but some of things Trump has said to not be a big deal.

Do you still feel this way today, after Donald's latest comments? Would be interested to hear your and SMR's - or anyone else, for that matter - thoughts on his comments re:Russia.

I think we can at least agree he seems to have a...peculiar...perspective/relationship with Russia and Putin, it's kind of baffling to me really. I might be switching back to my "He's going to look like a complete ass to help Hillary seem likable and get elected" conspiracy theory I first had when he was competing in the primary race. Frankly, if I'm a registered Republican, I'm not sure if this election cycle has made me more irate or sad about the state of the party today.

[m121c]

No apologies needed, I would have to agree a good majority of this community could not handle it respectfully.

Just want to be on the same page, when you say his comments about Russia, you mean his comments about the 30,000 emails correct? My opinion, there was what he said, and then what the media interpreted what he said. My sound like a cop out or an excuse because I am for Trump at this point, but I really feel is was more meant in sarcasm or as a joke. He really didn't call for Russia to hack the United States of America to find the 30,000 emails, I think he was joking about how maybe Russia could find them, because apparently they have gone missing to us. When he says it he even kind of smirks at it.

It was a joke I feel, but a very poorly executed one, as well as terrible timing with the email leak of DNC and it's possible ties to Russia. He should have known by now that the media was going to twist his words and come away with a different meaning. If anything has come out of him running, it has really showed just how little credibility we should give our media outlets, at this point, I really don't know who to trust for information as far as integrity goes.

I can agree though, he does have a peculiar perspective with Russia and Putin. What is more interesting to me, is not how Trump's views are with them, but more how Putin's views are. Putin obviously has never been one for the U.S. and especially our way of doing things, particularly Obama. He has said before he likes Trump, and it almost seems as if they are helping his campaign out (if things hold true). However, is this something that the Democratic party and their circle of media want us to think? Is it it an out there idea? Is it possible? Who knows, who would have guessed that Bernie was right when he said it was rigged and that the DNC was for Hillary all along. People just thought he was a sore loser. One thing to keep in mind, although the media has already for the most part coincided to the idea, we don't actually know that Russia did it, however it is very suspicious and there are a few points that are odd, furthering the idea that it could have very well been Russia.

I kinda just went tin foil hat there, but with the way the media has been so fair this election, I don't know who to believe.

[SMR 510RR]

I am just over the left chanting bully over and over without any actual examples of Trump being a bully. As far as him being a racist, he has not been a politician long but has been a public figure for a long time yet no reports of racism. Contrast that with DNC emails referring to latinos as "Taco Bowls" and the picture becomes clearer.

Democrats claim to be trying to help people escape poverty but their policy never does anything but make people dependent on their hand outs. Then they instill fear that the greedy Republicans will take that away and they will be left with nothing. On top of that have no security at the border and no voter ID and you have a surefire method to win every election.

[Big Smooth one3]

I will post a more well thought out reply tomorrow, but reading your last posts makes me think "why is that so different than me?" Not that what you say is illogical, just that I don't come to the same conclusions - or at least, to the same extent - based on the same publicly available information on some of these things.

The shortest of shorthand versions of the first thing that comes to mind in regards to both of your responses are A) I don't believe there is a conspiracy amongst all media outlets to brainwash the public into believing something that isn't remotely true; and B) I don't believe there is some larger voter fraud issue whereby presidents are elected because illegal immigrants are able to flood the ballots with their unauthorized votes. What I am willing to believe is that, in terms of the individual components of those issues, there is a middle ground somewhere, but that's just me, and what the hell do I know? BTW I stress the term "shorthand," because I'm not trying to be insulting here, hope that comes across clearly, just felt like posting while I was thinking about it.

Something kept coming to mind thinking about this - Occam's razor. Maybe what he missed is that the "most probable" solution is entirely subjective.

[m121c]

A) I don't believe there is a conspiracy amongst all media outlets to brainwash the public into believing something that isn't remotely true; and B) I don't believe there is some larger voter fraud issue whereby presidents are elected because illegal immigrants are able to flood the ballots with their unauthorized votes.

I agree that there is some sort of middle ground possibly. I mean, I don't believe that all media outlets brainwash the public with garbage, however, it is clear to me that more than not there are a ton more liberal based news/media outlets that will continually push the liberal agenda while blindly twisting and purposely twist the words of their enemies around, or turn a blind eye to their liberal politicians.

Here is why I think this.

I see everything little thing about Donald Trump blown out of proportion, if the man so much as says hello in the wrong tone it's on the news the next day "Donald Trump very derogatory towards multi-racial reporter" and then it goes through the ringer down to some of most extreme liberal sites and their headlines are "Trump Racist to Mexican reporter, wants to build wall and throw her on the other side". (obviously that is made up and a stretch, but I make my point).

On the other side of the coin, these major media outlets ignore much of Hillary, and if anything negative reaches "trending" it is removed rather quickly. I believe they had already caught google tampering with popular and suggest searches of Hillary Clinton? See on google their suggested searches are based on a algorithm of recent and trending topics, google makes these stats public which is kinda cool. What is not cool, was when you typed in Hillary Clinton and none of here suggested searches were negative something is a little weird. Looking further into it, recent search trends with the words Hillary Clinton were actually negative and most dealt with her defense of the rape case 40 odd years ago, her email scandal, Benghazi, and the Clinton Foundation, however none of these were actually on the search list. Now, might just be something wrong with the algorithm right? Well... If you search the keywords Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders... it was very much as it is supposed to work and the statistics matched the list.

Take Twitter for instance, they have continually banned conservative based hashtags that trend and or took them off the list. One that stands out in my mind was the #FreeMilo hashtag that was #4 in the nation until Twitter banned the word. Yet #ImwithHer trends all the time and #NeverTrump. Not to mention their CEO Jack Dorsey is a die hard liberal and it's hard to look based the bias.

Facebook, I have seen this first hand. If anything negative about Hillary trends, it's either 1. removed 2.moved to specific trending category and taken of the top trending list 3. Reworded and modified to be less negative

Keep in mind my observations and formed opinion about the media is strictly internet based, I do not turn my T.V. on very often nor watch the news daily. This very well could just be a way to produce hits and likes... Donald Trump has mastered the art of good and bad publicity and no matter if the media dislikes him or not, he brings them a ton of revenue just to hate him.

I pretty much agree with SMR's statement, so I'm curious for your reply of your conclusions, just out pure interest to why we think differently. Not that there is a right or wrong here, but clearly we all have reasons for our thinking so it's intriguing to understand a different view.

[SMR 510RR]

There were videos and audio recorded of "community organizer" types training people to help enroll new voters telling them that it doesn't matter if they are eligible to vote or not. It does happen and even 1 time is not acceptable.

You are free to have a different opinion than I do, that is part of what makes this Country great. It doesn't offend me in the slightest.

My first point was more about how if a republican questions Hillary on something that we know is factually accurate, such as the use of a private email server, he is labeled as a bully. That is simply not the case and calling someone a bully over and over is bullying so the whole thing is so hypocritical.

I might have a slightly different outlook on this because I live in a very liberal place. I am very selective who I let know I am conservative because I will be labeled as a privileged white male. It's funny thought. My clients all thing I am on their team. One day someone will say something about how horrible Trump is or how Obama was supposed to save this country and then today someone said they could make a room their AR15 room.