Political Debate Thread

I've heard conversation coming out of animal pens that is more intelligent than what is going on in here.
Andy_Hack
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by Andy_Hack »

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...think about it.
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SMR 510RR
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by SMR 510RR »

m121c wrote:Any thoughts on recent world events? Pretty complicated and very real situation going on between global powers.

If you ask me, Trump's Syria move was a great power move for the U.S., however, hopefully the quick reaction doesn't result in deeper consequences. On one side, I think the Chinese President now takes President Trump a little more serious... Hopefully 59 tomahawk missiles fired within hours of an illegal use of WOMD is pretty clear they need to control their toddler neighbor or we will do it for them.

In other news, the Gorsuch situation is pretty interesting as well, using the "nuclear option" to get him confirmed. Are there not two judges about ready to step down within Trumps administrator in power? Things could get very interesting...
TBH I am tired of the US being the Worlds Police. It is about as thankless as being a police officer in any large urban area in the US these days. It's costing us money we don't have and to top it off everyone gives us shit about it afterwards. I really wish out allies would put their money where their mouth is and pay a more equal share of the World Police budget. I just hope we don't go boots on ground, we don't need to get involved in another unwinnable War.

Gorsuch was a good pick IMO and I don't know why he didn't gain more support from the Left. It was a much more moderate pick than what I think we all expected but I think it was a good faith gesture on Trump's part to try and actually get the open seat filled.
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by Big Smooth one3 »

SMR 510RR wrote:Gorsuch was a good pick IMO and I don't know why he didn't gain more support from the Left. It was a much more moderate pick than what I think we all expected but I think it was a good faith gesture on Trump's part to try and actually get the open seat filled.
Months later, this thread continues to deliver opinions and perspectives that widen my view. Can't say I've heard/read/etc. anything close to this - certainly an interesting point of view for me to consider.

Quickly - as to gaining more support from the left, I think all you have to do is look at the situation with Garland, and that's before even considering the policy stances of Gorsuch.
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by SMR 510RR »

Big Smooth one3 wrote:
SMR 510RR wrote:Gorsuch was a good pick IMO and I don't know why he didn't gain more support from the Left. It was a much more moderate pick than what I think we all expected but I think it was a good faith gesture on Trump's part to try and actually get the open seat filled.
Quickly - as to gaining more support from the left, I think all you have to do is look at the situation with Garland, and that's before even considering the policy stances of Gorsuch.
When you mention Garland what are you referencing specifically? His nomination in general?
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by m121c »

SMR 510RR wrote:
m121c wrote:Any thoughts on recent world events? Pretty complicated and very real situation going on between global powers.

If you ask me, Trump's Syria move was a great power move for the U.S., however, hopefully the quick reaction doesn't result in deeper consequences. On one side, I think the Chinese President now takes President Trump a little more serious... Hopefully 59 tomahawk missiles fired within hours of an illegal use of WOMD is pretty clear they need to control their toddler neighbor or we will do it for them.

In other news, the Gorsuch situation is pretty interesting as well, using the "nuclear option" to get him confirmed. Are there not two judges about ready to step down within Trumps administrator in power? Things could get very interesting...
TBH I am tired of the US being the Worlds Police. It is about as thankless as being a police officer in any large urban area in the US these days. It's costing us money we don't have and to top it off everyone gives us shit about it afterwards. I really wish out allies would put their money where their mouth is and pay a more equal share of the World Police budget. I just hope we don't go boots on ground, we don't need to get involved in another unwinnable War.

Gorsuch was a good pick IMO and I don't know why he didn't gain more support from the Left. It was a much more moderate pick than what I think we all expected but I think it was a good faith gesture on Trump's part to try and actually get the open seat filled.
I hear you on the world police, which is kinda hypocritical about my post above. Except we had agreement's in place left over from Obama and those agreements were broken, what are we supposed to do? I'm glad we showed that we mean business, however I agree the UN needs to step their shit up. Seems like we are the only ones worried about WMD and we are not even close to them like the EU.

Time for them to either step up, or pay up.
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by On The Pipe »

Anon gets it.

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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by Big Smooth one3 »

Can't speak for anyone else, but if I show up at a rally for what I believe to be a reasonable cause, then realize I'm surrounded by a bunch of neo-nazi's/KKK/etc., and I have the minimal amount of intelligence required to realize what's going on (the chanting might be a hint), I probably am not sticking around. If I am one of these good people, I probably think "damn, these are bad people and I don't want anything to do with them, this isn't what I signed up for."

But yea, that's just me, apologies for being such a crazy leftist liberal.
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by Pumaxcs »

I think South Park may have covered this...

In their version though getting the KKK on board made everyone realize what they were doing was wrong and acted against them. Can't be right 100% of the time.
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by On The Pipe »

Big Smooth one3 wrote:Can't speak for anyone else, but if I show up at a rally for what I believe to be a reasonable cause, then realize I'm surrounded by a bunch of neo-nazi's/KKK/etc., and I have the minimal amount of intelligence required to realize what's going on (the chanting might be a hint), I probably am not sticking around. If I am one of these good people, I probably think "damn, these are bad people and I don't want anything to do with them, this isn't what I signed up for."

But yea, that's just me, apologies for being such a crazy leftist liberal.
That would be a normal response I think most people would feel. The far right and left are literally just nut jobs that are crazy. I'm just sick of the leftist lumping people in the right as alt right. What the leftist fail to understand is racism is still alive/well in the States and will probably never go away. A lot of the biases come from poverty which leads to crime and drugs (many studies confirm). So people tend to form opinions against certain races/ethnicity I do not blame them because I feel the same way. I'm sure the people in Europe really enjoy the refugees ruining their cities. /s What amazes me is that these young kids who go to uni and get an education are so stupid. It's like they never learned anything. Take a sociology class and actually learn something relevant. However, some of these kids mainly women get brainwashed by professors or some other leftist BS. Then completely deny all logic/rational thoughts and want you to accept everything they believe as gospel. With all this transgender weird shit going on and coming out they want us to just accept these people at a moments notice. I rarely ever talk politics in person because people can get really weird if you say the wrong thing.

What's funny is how mad people are about Trump still winning the elect face it he won now deal with it. Yet they constantly keep bringing up the Russian investigation and a ton of other issues. You turn on the evening news and its the same shit slandering Trump 24/7 its sickening talk about some real stuff for once.
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by SMR 510RR »

Big Smooth one3 wrote:Can't speak for anyone else, but if I show up at a rally for what I believe to be a reasonable cause, then realize I'm surrounded by a bunch of neo-nazi's/KKK/etc., and I have the minimal amount of intelligence required to realize what's going on (the chanting might be a hint), I probably am not sticking around. If I am one of these good people, I probably think "damn, these are bad people and I don't want anything to do with them, this isn't what I signed up for."

But yea, that's just me, apologies for being such a crazy leftist liberal.
The problem is that everyone right of Sanders is now the "Alt-Right" and their events are all for white supremacists. A great example was Patriot Prayer and their attempt to have an event close to me in San Francisco. They had I think 1 or 2 speakers that were white, the rest were from various other backgrounds and the lineup included a trans person. Nope, that is an Alt-Right group filled with hate we must protest their existence. Then they cancel the event because they are concerned it will get out of hand and they become snowflakes.

People in this country have lost their damn mind and the media and government officials are 100% to blame. The mayor of SF called them out as a hate group as did Nancy Pelosi. It's a bunch of bullshit.

Anyone on the Left who doesn't despise Antifa as much as the everyday people on the right don't identify with the crazy white supremacists is part of the problem.
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by Big Smooth one3 »

Well said comments, thoughtful input. Let me quickly just pick a few things since I only have a minute here...
SMR 510RR wrote:The problem is that everyone right of Sanders is now the "Alt-Right" and their events are all for white supremacists.
On The Pipe wrote:I'm just sick of the leftist lumping people in the right as alt right.
Wow, this is a very interesting sentiment that was immediately expressed by both of you. I'm probably going to say this a lot in this post so I'll go ahead and get #2 out of the way - I find that incredibly interesting! Frankly I don't think reasonable people believe all conservatives are alt-right, or whatever cliched category you would classify that less than ideal group of individuals neither one of you wishes to be associated with. I would argue that both of you two, to different extents, have really generalized in your comments (and I think probably on purpose, to prove a point, but correct me if I'm wrong) about how you fear "others" see conservatives. So, let me flip the table on you.

How do you think people who see themselves as more moderate but just don't completely adapt to/fully buy into the current direction of the GOP feel when they express those opinions and then are immediately categorized and called down for being flaming liberals? In full disclose, that's a bit of personal experience for me, because despite the fact that I feel I would generally fall to the right of the spectrum ideologically, the path/tactics/efficacy/strategy/policy/lotsofthings that has been the GOP for the past few years has been quite off putting just for my liking. Having said that, I do actually hold back on being critical at times because I'm well aware that I would immediately be labeled a crazy leftist liberal for doing so. Not many more things that irritates the shit out of me than being called a liberal lol. IMO, those are mirror frustrations on both sides of the aisle, and I think the important take-away is that people such as ourselves are really just fed up with being lumped into a generalized extreme category based on assumed anecdotal evidence about other's who may think something similar but in no way represent the entire picture [/runonsentence].
On The Pipe wrote:What the leftist fail to understand is racism is still alive/well in the States and will probably never go away.
Again - interesting! I would have ventured to say that some of these "leftists" would suggest that it's the exact opposite, that they feel some on the right have taken some sort of unknowing, accepting ignorance to this issue. I won't say I agree with that, because I like to think of people as reasonable/intelligent or not rather than by party, but I would offer the opinion that I don't agree that those with a more liberal leaning are less aware and accepting of racism and it's short and long term impact. If that were the case, it wouldn't make much sense to consistently, throughout all levels of government (fed/state/muni) see more minority elected officials within the dem's. Yes, that's not a 1-to-1 causal relationship, but I think it's a stable enough pattern to draw at least some meaning from. Again, this does not mean conservatives are racists lol not in the least, just that I think it's unfair to say "leftists fail to understand racism is still alive" because the only people that fall into that category - for me - are one's that also fall into the category of people I hear and think "I don't really care what this person thinks, conservative or liberal, they're just dumb."

All I have time for now, but yea, interesting comments. This thread never fails to deliver :D
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by Boblob801 »

Man what did you guys think of that debate last night. It's looking like a labour win, huh
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by SMR 510RR »

Big Smooth one3 wrote:Wow, this is a very interesting sentiment that was immediately expressed by both of you. I'm probably going to say this a lot in this post so I'll go ahead and get #2 out of the way - I find that incredibly interesting! Frankly I don't think reasonable people believe all conservatives are alt-right, or whatever cliched category you would classify that less than ideal group of individuals neither one of you wishes to be associated with. I would argue that both of you two, to different extents, have really generalized in your comments (and I think probably on purpose, to prove a point, but correct me if I'm wrong) about how you fear "others" see conservatives. So, let me flip the table on you.

How do you think people who see themselves as more moderate but just don't completely adapt to/fully buy into the current direction of the GOP feel when they express those opinions and then are immediately categorized and called down for being flaming liberals? In full disclose, that's a bit of personal experience for me, because despite the fact that I feel I would generally fall to the right of the spectrum ideologically, the path/tactics/efficacy/strategy/policy/lotsofthings that has been the GOP for the past few years has been quite off putting just for my liking. Having said that, I do actually hold back on being critical at times because I'm well aware that I would immediately be labeled a crazy leftist liberal for doing so. Not many more things that irritates the shit out of me than being called a liberal lol. IMO, those are mirror frustrations on both sides of the aisle, and I think the important take-away is that people such as ourselves are really just fed up with being lumped into a generalized extreme category based on assumed anecdotal evidence about other's who may think something similar but in no way represent the entire picture [/runonsentence].
I wasn't generalizing at all in my comment, I listed a specific example of what I am talking about.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/0 ... ist-rally/
A conservative group trying to promote unity and understanding is mistakenly labeled as a white supremacist group by a high ranking government official. She goes on to say that the National Parks Service has a poor understanding of the Constitution because they made it clear they would not be discriminatory in handing out permits for events like this.

The Mayor of San Francisco did the same.


Or what about the whole situation at Evergreen College? They asked to reverse roles in "a day of absence" historically where students & faculty of color have all been absent on a certain day to remind people that they are important members of society. Instead of taking the day off they asked all white people to not show up on that day. Professor Bret Weinstein wrote a letter to the organizer saying that he would not be told not to come to work because of his skin color.

Here is the letter he wrote:
http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1259154- ... m-protests

And here is some of what has been going on since then:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cMYfxOFBBM



The current direction of the GOP sucks just like the direction of the Democrats sucks. There are very few politicians these days who are involved for the right reasons no matter what side of the isle they find themselves on. Both sides use a divide and conquer strategy fed by misquoted studies and misguided policies. Abortion is a perfect example. Conservatives are pro life, I myself am pro life (except for specific scenarios that probably don't happen often), but then they are anti birth control? What the hell? You can't tell people not do do something and then not let them have access to the tools to not do it. That is crazy. I know, you are thinking to yourself "exactly right". Well what is the Democrat position? A woman has the right to decide what is happening in her body, no one else get's a say...Not the man who was the other 1/2 of her conception and may never have another opportunity to have a child and not the unborn child who apparently doesn't have any rights until it breathes oxygen for the first time. To prove how morally superior they are they misquote statistics like "1 in 2 women who got an abortion were using contraception" when the real study says "1 in 2 women who got an abortion used contraception at some point in the month when they conceived. Both of these are despicable actions and we shouldn't be satisfied with anyone in our government that acts like these people.
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Re: Political Debate Thread

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trump 2k16-infinite
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by Wahlamt »

Andy_Hack wrote:Image
...think about it.
Could we keep UAE? Abu Dhabi was loads of fun, Dubai too.
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