Front Flips EVERYTHING

[RSmithDRIFT]

... I've been playing this for 4 months now. I even got a x360 controller instead of my logitech one thinking the digital gas brake was causing the problem. I can KILL in arcade mode and never have a problem over the jumps. But arcade modes sucks donkey dick in the turns and you cant do whips so I desperately want to use sim mode but I just literally cant. It's infuriating. Their is NOTHING going on correctly as it would in real life. Literally everytime I hit even the smallest bump the bike front flips. I can get around turns no problem assuming I can get to them at the right speed, so my stability setup is NOT the problem. I have antilock both brakes set to left trigger and gas to right. I have wheelies fully allowed and I use auto shifting so I get rid of the annoyance of the clutch causing any MORE problems. I can ride all the standard MX tracks even though they are even a pita because every jump is fingers crossed and pray to god it doesnt go over the bars randomly, but they are pretty smooth and asside from a spot or two I have to baby it through it's fine because theirs no inertia going on really. But EVERYTIME i get anywhere near a supercross track it's like the bike just instantly uncontrollably front flips every fucking thing in it's path. It doesnt matter if I am on the gas or not or leaning back (makes it worse???) or leaning forward or anything I land on my fucking head. And I cant come up short or long on a jump on the rare instance it stays level by more than a mm or two or the rider just jumps off the damn thing. None of this happens in real life. WTF is going on?? Someone please tell my my game is horribly glitched and broken somehow cause this is utter horse shit. I feel like this game has no idea of the concept of inertia. Or maybe the rider behavior on the bike is just fucked. IDK I've tried every bike setup combination possible and this nigger just wont stay on the god damn bike or off his fucking head every time he leaves the ground. Because I cant find a setup that solves this I have resorted to putting everything back at 50 except the rider springs are both 100 and the vertical damp =75 and forward damp = 35. That setup does solve it the most that I can find possible but it still is insanely out of control. I feel like their is nothing I can do to make this fucking bastard go off a jump properly. So it's either arcade mode forever, or just roll every track at super low speeds and hope to not get enough speed to lift a tire cause it will end on my head.

[aeffertz]

Turn off auto shifting. You don't have to use the clutch to shift.

And just lean back over the bumps at the right times to prevent endoing.

[RSmithDRIFT]

If it matters I do physics for rfactor and assetto corsa. Mostly rfactor though, just so happens it ports over nicely to assetto. Anyone who knows anything about those games knows they are on the highest level of driving simulators. My physics are well known now as the most realistic. I blueprinted my S13 240sx into the game down to every single detail the game asks for and have done more research on tire physics than most college students do getting their doctorate degree.

[RSmithDRIFT]

Turn off auto shifting. You don't have to use the clutch to shift.

And just lean back over the bumps at the right times to prevent endoing.

Is it possible for the rpm's to matter going off the jumps??

I know it's not just lean back at the right times because I've tried everything to no end. I've tried all the stock 2013 supercross tracks and probably have 80 hours logged in this game so far just trying and trying and trying and swearing like the mechanic I am in an endless stream at every unrealistic fuck up this game causes me to crash from.... about a week ago I did a lap (after about 20 that night) of just saying the word "no" everytime something wrong happened. I said no 18 times that lap. Most of it was random front flips off jumps. Not even going fast or anything,,, mid throttle approach, get speed right, full throttle off the jump lean back at the top of it.... Front flip. NO.

[aeffertz]

It is, though. Why do you think everyone else that plays the game isn't doing a front flip over everything? Maybe change your suspension if you are front flipping everything.

The game is tough and takes a bit to figure out.

[RSmithDRIFT]

It is, though. Why do you think everyone else that plays the game isn't doing a front flip over everything? Maybe change your suspension if you are front flipping everything.

The game is tough and takes a bit to figure out.

It's not all front flips to begin with... But everything seems to end up in a front flip. If i case a jump AT ALL. I mean at all. Front flip. If I enter the woops AT ALL I will end up either front flipping or backflipping. ONe or the other. And it's always some crazy side to side front to back wobbling that causes it.

And I'm exaggerating the front flip... By that I mean the MOFO goes into a nosedive that can end in no other way but a crash. And it doesnt matter how I'm leaning...

How can you adjust the front suspension to help? I've tried running it stiffer and softer than the rear. Nothing helps it would seem.

The game acts like it has no gyro's... I think everyone on here should know a real bike has 2 very strong gyro's. Granted hitting the brake is a sure fire way to make a actual front flip happen but hitting the gas in the air doesnt raise the nose... WTF. You should be able to go off a jump coasting and not have a problem. Gas = nose up, brake = nose down... in this game gas = nothing. no gas = nose down and brake = HOLY WTF FRONT FLIP. Their's nothing right about that at all.... And it can move so quick it's like the thing has the mass of a tank but the inertia of a bycicle. Watch real supercross.... Do it in real life. That shit doesnt happen. EVER. It's sad when arcade mode is more realistic in the way it handles jumps...

[jlv]

Try letting off the throttle on the jump face to compress the forks and then gas it again as you take off. If the forks don't compress on the face this will happen -

[RSmithDRIFT]

Try letting off the throttle on the jump face to compress the forks and then gas it again as you take off. If the forks don't compress on the face this will happen -

That happened because he was doing a wheelie as he hit the jump face and his front tire literally missed the lip making his front dive at take off and his rear raise drastically as his front dived, and still he just landed nose heavy. In this game i would have landed literally on my head.

And yea I do that but i still get out of control as hell from one jump to the next and can never make an entire straight away. It works for a single jump though...

[RSmithDRIFT]

Try letting off the throttle on the jump face to compress the forks and then gas it again as you take off. If the forks don't compress on the face this will happen -

Since I got your attention, have you considered that a rider is more than just a spring and damper in real life?? I think that's the core of the problem here. The rider needs to not have spring and damper physics but AI. He needs to resist bouncing on the landings especially in hard impact like a case and focus on absorbing the impact the harder it is and in gradual force act as more of a resistance. Basically an algorithm in which the sharper the force the higher the dampening and less spring and the more gradual the force is the more of a spring and less damper. Because lets face it that's the way we naturally hit things. He also needs a gyro in his head to simulate the inner ear to keep him centered/balanced and thus prevent the swaying from left/right that happens so much.

You made a major improvement fixing the suspension with the last update... I think fixing the rider behavior would solve this problem on the jumps and make it an actual sim instead of infuriating on a supercross because your dealing with some crazy nonsense happening all the time.

Please understand that you get used to a games physics flaws and make up for them subconciously after a while and thus they stop bothering you. But if you want to make a real accurate game you will have to learn to get past the placebo effect with both yourself and others. When I release new test physics for tires in rfactor now I release several decoys in the physics options to weed out the idiots and give all of the variants encrypted names so nobody can placebo affect a favorite. Because I understand that as I'm creating them I will adapt to them and might not feel a problem in one model vs another because I'm so adapted to working with that problem. It helps to have google earth to bring in the local roads and put them in in perfect physical detail and have my car blueprinted so I can have it in perfect detail in game and only have the tires to make a difference. Scientific method is key to getting things actually accurate. When you only have one variable affecting the outcome it's much easier to tell what's happening and how to solve a problem in it.

Not trying to lecture you, but I want to have the most realistic MX Sim possible, it's been a LONG time coming and I want it to be right, not something I have to get used to dealing with it's problems.

[jlv]

I did make a few attempts at making the rider more intelligent than just a spring and damper, but couldn't find anything that worked as well.

If you're having problems swapping, try lowering the restricted lock setting. As far as reducing nose diving with your setup, stiff forks with fast rebound can help, but technique is more important.

[RSmithDRIFT]

I did make a few attempts at making the rider more intelligent than just a spring and damper, but couldn't find anything that worked as well.

If you're having problems swapping, try lowering the restricted lock setting. As far as reducing nose diving with your setup, stiff forks with fast rebound can help, but technique is more important.

TBH I think the most important thing is going to be a fast/slow damper setup for the rider. I think that's all it boils down to. Just like with the suspension. The rider is suspension also. It bounced horribly before the suspension update because of lack of fast/slow damper and now it only bounces a little bit. I think if the rider had the same thing done to him the bounce would be gone other than what should exist.

Like super hard fast and soft slow dampening of the rider would probably solve it for good honestly.

[motokid499]

Most rF and EMF pros are already faster in this game compared to pros in real life, I don't want anymore settings that could potentially make us go even faster. The pace players are running now is ridiculous.

[RSmithDRIFT]

Most rF and EMF pros are already faster in this game compared to pros in real life, I don't want anymore settings that could potentially make us go even faster. The pace players are running now is ridiculous.

Well, the tracks are made BEFORE the event, not after, and thus arent exactly perfect either. Also the surface in game is perfect all the time and constantly changing in real life. And it's easy to have balls in the sim vs real life. I'd rather have something that feels accurate to ride than something that meets the exact lap times of the real tracks...

[RSmithDRIFT]

Most rF and EMF pros are already faster in this game compared to pros in real life, I don't want anymore settings that could potentially make us go even faster. The pace players are running now is ridiculous.

And if you really want to know the reason the times are rediculous it's because they have trained themselves to be able to ride on HYPER unrealistic advanced stability setups. IMO you shouldnt be able to adjust any of that shit. It's the equivalent of changing the look sensitivity to it's lowest value in COD and forcing yourself to get good at controlling it. That's in no way possible in real life. Sadly I dont think this game uses real mass/momentum/inertia physics and relies on these unrealistic "dampening" values to adjust this. For cornering the realistic Advanced Stability setup is 100% leveling, 50% roll dampening, 0 roll limit angle, 0 roll limit factor, 50 steering dampening, 100% steering strenth and 1.0 direct steering. The rest of it is just preference, but the setups I see posted by the pro's are just insane. They are so unorthodox I couldnt learn to ride them if I had the rest of my life to do nothing other than keep trying. All of my real life training and experience says to do it a certain way and those settings are NOTHING like that. My settings match perfectly in the corners. I just cant get a bike/rider setup that takes the jumps properly... It's always inconsistent. Do the same thing through the same straight and get different results every single time. It's literally insane. One run though a rythm will be nose high and smooth, even requiring some braking to land flat, then come through the next time and it bucks so hard I lean all the way back and hang wide open in the air and still land on my head. WTF. I swear this game has no intertia values and just relies on it's spring and damper behavior. I wish the physics code was open source so I could fix it honestly. I'm 100% positive I could.

[RSmithDRIFT]

Most rF and EMF pros are already faster in this game compared to pros in real life, I don't want anymore settings that could potentially make us go even faster. The pace players are running now is ridiculous.

And if you really want to know the reason the times are rediculous it's because they have trained themselves to be able to ride on HYPER unrealistic advanced stability setups. IMO you shouldnt be able to adjust any of that shit. It's the equivalent of changing the look sensitivity to it's lowest value in COD and forcing yourself to get good at controlling it. That's in no way possible in real life. Sadly I dont think this game uses real mass/momentum/inertia physics and relies on these unrealistic "dampening" values to adjust this. For cornering the realistic Advanced Stability setup is 100% leveling, 50% roll dampening, 0 roll limit angle, 0 roll limit factor, 50 steering dampening, 100% steering strenth and 1.0 direct steering. The rest of it is just preference, but the setups I see posted by the pro's are just insane. They are so unorthodox I couldnt learn to ride them if I had the rest of my life to do nothing other than keep trying. All of my real life training and experience says to do it a certain way and those settings are NOTHING like that. My settings match perfectly in the corners. I just cant get a bike/rider setup that takes the jumps properly... It's always inconsistent. Do the same thing through the same straight and get different results every single time. It's literally insane. One run though a rythm will be nose high and smooth, even requiring some braking to land flat, then come through the next time and it bucks so hard I lean all the way back and hang wide open in the air and still land on my head. WTF. I swear this game has no intertia values and just relies on it's spring and damper behavior. I wish the physics code was open source so I could fix it honestly. I'm 100% positive I could.