tire selection

[yzmxer608]

AMA SX replicas have way too much traction, a little bit less would make some people faster

Way too much traction?! What tracks have you been riding?

Three "unofficial" replicas from 2008, all from 2010, all from 2011 and A1 2012

I think everyone I've talked to has said the replicas have had too little traction, not too much. You're definitely the minority here.

[jbrandmx85]

[/quote]I think everyone I've talked to has said the replicas have had too little traction, not too much. You're definitely the minority here.[/quote]

Exactly what i was thinking....

[Phathry25]

I would say they are just about right TBH. The way the game works is wrong though. No way I should be able to spin my tire to the point of running out of RPM/power and then still have it spinning. But I don't have a clue how to correct the problem, or what the problem even is. So I just keep my frustrations to myself.

[DJ99X]

Huh? How is that wrong?

[Phathry25]

Drive your bike onto the grass. Put it in 3rd gear. Now, and this is going to be tricky, while maintaining a riding position do a WFO burnout. You more than likely can't, but if you can get it to spin, you won't be able to hold it against the rev limiter. Is my point any clearer now?

I don't know how to describe it well, I just know that in real life riding applications that the tires don't act like they do in the game.

[DJ99X]

Not really. Besides, the sideways slip acts differently to the slip in the direction that the tyre is spinning.

[jlv]

Drive your bike onto the grass. Put it in 3rd gear. Now, and this is going to be tricky, while maintaining a riding position do a WFO burnout. You more than likely can't, but if you can get it to spin, you won't be able to hold it against the rev limiter. Is my point any clearer now?

I don't know how to describe it well, I just know that in real life riding applications that the tires don't act like they do in the game.

Can you do it on the edge of 2012 A1? The traction there falls off at higher slip rates. Also, the rev limiter sound kicks in at zero torque rather than a specify RPM, so any significant load on the engine will prevent the rev limiter sound.

If you want to play around with it, here's the off track friction I use. It's meant to mimic concrete with a fairly high static but low sliding friction. Try changing the .8 to .5 if you want it to have a sharper breakaway.

friction 1.0 6.0
friction 0.8 8.0
roll_resist 5.0 15.0 10.0
texture @colors/gray.png
roost texture=@loam_dryscatter16x16.png slip_threshold=48.0 drag=16.0 count=1 size=1.0 grow=8.0 r=0 g=0 b=0 a=64 fade_a=-256
addtile

[Phathry25]

The WFO burnout example is supposed to be done in real life. You can do burnouts in 4th gear going down the start straight in the game...

I sat at the bar and stared at the wall thinking about this....

In the game it's the forward drive that is not right IMO. In real life when you stand a spinning rear tire up on the center of the tire it will in most situations return to static friction. In the game it just keeps spinning at the same rate. It's like the edge of the tire offers as much grip as the center. In real life the only situation you see where it maintains it's slip is on the dust covered chalk board effect you get at Las Vegas each year.

My technical terminology sucks. Hard to tell I'm not an engineer?

[ddmx]

Way too much traction?! What tracks have you been riding?

Any track that Checkerz has ever made.

[Phathry25]

The Winter Indoor rounds use JLV's SX traction. And the SX Open tracks use default traction. Is that too much?

[DJ99X]

Yeah, I've never been a fan of sticky traction on SX tracks. The stock traction (aka what JLV uses ) is the way to go for SX IMO

[jlv]

The WFO burnout example is supposed to be done in real life. You can do burnouts in 4th gear going down the start straight in the game...

I sat at the bar and stared at the wall thinking about this.... :roll:

In the game it's the forward drive that is not right IMO. In real life when you stand a spinning rear tire up on the center of the tire it will in most situations return to static friction. In the game it just keeps spinning at the same rate. It's like the edge of the tire offers as much grip as the center. In real life the only situation you see where it maintains it's slip is on the dust covered chalk board effect you get at Las Vegas each year.

My technical terminology sucks. Hard to tell I'm not an engineer? :lol:

Static friction is when there is no slip. I think what you mean is it isn't ramping up enough at high slip speeds.

Yeah, I've never been a fan of sticky traction on SX tracks. The stock traction (aka what JLV uses ) is the way to go for SX IMO

I'm using this as the primary SX traction. It's a little too grippy but people seem to like it. Stock is 1 at all slip rates.

friction 1.0 1.0
friction 1.0 32.0
friction 1.5 64.0
roll_resist 5.0 15.0 10.0

[dylan22]

JLV have you ever thought about using different traction for different parts of the track? Because IRL majority of the time, The jumps and straight aways are fairly hard packed, while the corners are a bit more tacky and loose from the roost etc.

[DJ99X]

JLV have you ever thought about using different traction for different parts of the track? Because IRL majority of the time, The jumps and straight aways are fairly hard packed, while the corners are a bit more tacky and loose from the roost etc.

Agreed

[Phathry25]

No, I'm not talking about it ramping up more at higher slip speeds. I'm not suggesting that the tire needs to "dig in" more. My observations revolve around contact patch.



This is what the tires feel like to me. IRL when the tire is on its center it's contact patch is much greater versus when it is on it's side. This gives you more forward grip when the tire is on it's center versus on it's side. It seems like no additional traction is gained by standing the bike up on the center of its tire. In the game as it is now, it feels like I'm riding with two identical tires on the front and rear of my bike. Where in real life the front tire is built for lateral traction, and the rear for longitudinal traction. The tires in the game seem like a compromise of those characteristics.