2020 Dynos

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motokid499
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Re: 2020 Dynos

Post by motokid499 »

aeffertz wrote:
motokid499 wrote:
Jones221 wrote:
traction can slow bikes down, instead of overscaling maybe take a look at traction and how you can use it slow down the flow of the track.

can't be stuck on 2018 dynos forever thats not very simulator.
This, traction levels in current pro racing is a joke imo
Traction is fine IMO, I would like to see more resistance though. Rather it be tacky and slower than icy.

A few years ago we did a heavy resistance on Millville and all the 250 riders hated it because it was slow.
Yeah Millville is the wrong track to introduce something like that. Should've done something flat like fox raceway. I still think the grip levels are way too high. If you actually go and slow motion a corner you're doing in mxs and compare it to real life it absolutely is a joke the lean angles we hold are so much more extreme. I'm all for 2012 outdoor traction/2013 gp traction with more resistance.
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aeffertz
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Re: 2020 Dynos

Post by aeffertz »

motokid499 wrote:
aeffertz wrote:
motokid499 wrote:
This, traction levels in current pro racing is a joke imo
Traction is fine IMO, I would like to see more resistance though. Rather it be tacky and slower than icy.

A few years ago we did a heavy resistance on Millville and all the 250 riders hated it because it was slow.
Yeah Millville is the wrong track to introduce something like that. Should've done something flat like fox raceway. I still think the grip levels are way too high. If you actually go and slow motion a corner you're doing in mxs and compare it to real life it absolutely is a joke the lean angles we hold are so much more extreme. I'm all for 2012 outdoor traction/2013 gp traction with more resistance.
Nah. Dirt isn’t slippery. I would argue the lean angles are more of a byproduct of the high speeds, not too much traction. The faster you go, the further you can lean without tipping. I think it would be more effective to slow the speed by adding more resistance than loosening the traction. Because then you have high speeds on ice and you’re only slowing the speed down so you don’t shp sliding across the track.
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motokid499
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Re: 2020 Dynos

Post by motokid499 »

aeffertz wrote:
Nah. Dirt isn’t slippery. I would argue the lean angles are more of a byproduct of the high speeds, not too much traction. The faster you go, the further you can lean without tipping. I think it would be more effective to slow the speed by adding more resistance than loosening the traction. Because then you have high speeds on ice and you’re only slowing the speed down so you don’t shp sliding across the track.
Dirt is very slippery. Okay, lets forget lean angles for a second, because of course gyro plays a factor. Idk how you guys ride irl, but im never full gas on dirt. I'm constantly adjusting my throttle control to maintain the most traction, which is normally far from 100% throttle. This game, 250 or 450, we are wicked everywhere with no concequences. 40-50hp going to the rear tire and its not giving us any issues on current traction. If thats not a clue that we have too much traction I dont know what is. Maybe I just suck irl for not being able to hold a 450 full throttle while leaned over in a corner, who knows. I still think many people just feel as tho the traction is fine because the game doesnt have any force feedback, its strictly visual feedback which is much harder to get a "feeling" for the traction. So we overcompensate with more grip to try to give us the "feeling" of traction. The game definitely needs to be slowed down though, so if you can manage to get the average speeds down to realistic levels and keep the traction levels so people dont cry then i'd see that as a win.
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motokid499
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Re: 2020 Dynos

Post by motokid499 »

motokid499 wrote:The game definitely needs to be slowed down though, so if you can manage to get the average speeds down to realistic levels and keep the traction levels so people dont cry then i'd see that as a win.
Im actually not entirely sure though. More resistance punishes everyone, less traction only punishes those who dont know when to slow down and use throttle control.
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aeffertz
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Re: 2020 Dynos

Post by aeffertz »

motokid499 wrote:
motokid499 wrote:The game definitely needs to be slowed down though, so if you can manage to get the average speeds down to realistic levels and keep the traction levels so people dont cry then i'd see that as a win.
Im actually not entirely sure though. More resistance punishes everyone, less traction only punishes those who dont know when to slow down and use throttle control.
That’s kinda my point. I think it would be better to physically slow the bikes so we can build to a more realistic scale then to just make it harder to go the same speed as they do now. That would just add an annoyance rather than really fix the high speed problem, IMO. Everyone will have their opinion on it, that’s just mine and you have yours.
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VUSTTOS
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Re: 2020 Dynos

Post by VUSTTOS »

aeffertz wrote:That’s kinda my point. I think it would be better to physically slow the bikes so we can build to a more realistic scale then to just make it harder to go the same speed as they do now. That would just add an annoyance rather than really fix the high speed problem, IMO. Everyone will have their opinion on it, that’s just mine and you have yours.
So you want JLV to slow down the bikes but rF makes tracks that allows you to 5th wide open every corner? There would probably be a sweet point in between but oh gosh, I guess I am old enough and so prefer the old tracks that makes this game actually feel like a simulator. No disrespect to the people who likes this kinda tracks.
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aeffertz
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Re: 2020 Dynos

Post by aeffertz »

VUSTTOS wrote:
aeffertz wrote:That’s kinda my point. I think it would be better to physically slow the bikes so we can build to a more realistic scale then to just make it harder to go the same speed as they do now. That would just add an annoyance rather than really fix the high speed problem, IMO. Everyone will have their opinion on it, that’s just mine and you have yours.
So you want JLV to slow down the bikes but rF makes tracks that allows you to 5th wide open every corner? There would probably be a sweet point in between but oh gosh, I guess I am old enough and so prefer the old tracks that makes this game actually feel like a simulator. No disrespect to the people who likes this kinda tracks.
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No I’m not saying to adjust the dynos at all. I’m saying use a traction that has more resistance and slows the bikes down.
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jlv
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Re: 2020 Dynos

Post by jlv »

aeffertz wrote:
motokid499 wrote:
aeffertz wrote:
Traction is fine IMO, I would like to see more resistance though. Rather it be tacky and slower than icy.

A few years ago we did a heavy resistance on Millville and all the 250 riders hated it because it was slow.
Yeah Millville is the wrong track to introduce something like that. Should've done something flat like fox raceway. I still think the grip levels are way too high. If you actually go and slow motion a corner you're doing in mxs and compare it to real life it absolutely is a joke the lean angles we hold are so much more extreme. I'm all for 2012 outdoor traction/2013 gp traction with more resistance.
Nah. Dirt isn’t slippery. I would argue the lean angles are more of a byproduct of the high speeds, not too much traction. The faster you go, the further you can lean without tipping. I think it would be more effective to slow the speed by adding more resistance than loosening the traction. Because then you have high speeds on ice and you’re only slowing the speed down so you don’t shp sliding across the track.
Assuming the riders are going as fast through the corner as is possible without sliding out, the tangent of the lean angle is basically the coefficient of friction. This only applies to flat corners of course. And yes, our friction settings are insanely high.

Really high drag is a bad idea in my opinion since by killing momentum it will bias towards the shortest path, making outside lines useless. Slip function 2 works really well. It lets you weaken acceleration while keeping decent traction for turning and braking. I'm surprised no one is interested in it.
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aeffertz
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Re: 2020 Dynos

Post by aeffertz »

jlv wrote:Slip function 2 works really well. It lets you weaken acceleration while keeping decent traction for turning and braking. I'm surprised no one is interested in it.
I think it's more of a matter of people not knowing what all the settings do and how to adjust them rather than not being interested in it. I think everybody wants good traction and good erode but it's just such a massive undertaking to even understand it that there's only a couple people who have a general idea how it works.
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motokid499
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Re: 2020 Dynos

Post by motokid499 »

aeffertz wrote:
jlv wrote:Slip function 2 works really well. It lets you weaken acceleration while keeping decent traction for turning and braking. I'm surprised no one is interested in it.
I think it's more of a matter of people not knowing what all the settings do and how to adjust them rather than not being interested in it. I think everybody wants good traction and good erode but it's just such a massive undertaking to even understand it that there's only a couple people who have a general idea how it works.
Just set it up realistically and let the people cry imo. It's a simulator, I want a simulation. True to life traction will never 'feel' real because this game isn't real, it's a monitor and a controller. Just do it and people will have to adapt. Throttle control will just become a skill people are forced to learn. How it should be.
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Re: 2020 Dynos

Post by aeffertz »

motokid499 wrote:Just set it up realistically and let the people cry imo. It's a simulator, I want a simulation. True to life traction will never 'feel' real because this game isn't real, it's a monitor and a controller. Just do it and people will have to adapt. Throttle control will just become a skill people are forced to learn. How it should be.
I've met my yearly erode/traction debate limit.
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motokid499
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Re: 2020 Dynos

Post by motokid499 »

aeffertz wrote: I've met my yearly erode/traction debate limit.
Thats okay, you gave it your best shot.
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Jeremy150
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Re: 2020 Dynos

Post by Jeremy150 »

jlv wrote:Slip function 2 works really well. It lets you weaken acceleration while keeping decent traction for turning and braking. I'm surprised no one is interested in it.
Probably should have mentioned we used it at Valkenswaard. General consensus was that everyone loved it. I have some concerns about it for regular dirt though. For some reason at very high speeds, the back end of the bike gets a bit slippery, almost like randomly jumping into a mud pit. Would that be something that needs to get adjusted in the traction settings?
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motokid499
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Re: 2020 Dynos

Post by motokid499 »

Jeremy150 wrote:I have some concerns about it for regular dirt though. For some reason at very high speeds, the back end of the bike gets a bit slippery, almost like randomly jumping into a mud pit. Would that be something that needs to get adjusted in the traction settings?
Does this happen under engine braking? Maybe because it works against acceleration, you also get less traction when deaccelerating ex) using engine braking instead of brakes?
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Re: 2020 Dynos

Post by Jeremy150 »

motokid499 wrote:
Jeremy150 wrote:I have some concerns about it for regular dirt though. For some reason at very high speeds, the back end of the bike gets a bit slippery, almost like randomly jumping into a mud pit. Would that be something that needs to get adjusted in the traction settings?
Does this happen under engine braking? Maybe because it works against acceleration, you also get less traction when deaccelerating ex) using engine braking instead of brakes?
No, specifically what happened was when I jumped down a hill into a bump my backend flew out 90 degrees.
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