Dyno balance

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jlv
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Re: Dyno balance

Post by jlv »

Quinten wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:12 pm I'm not sure what the idea of adding a "factory dyno" is going to do. Everyone is just going to run that dyno over the stock dynos because it's lighter, more hp, etc. What's going to make this idea any different from any other dyno update in the past?

Adding "factory dynos" is going to turn stock dynos obsolete, just saying. I do think the 250 needs substantial fixes but not sure adding a 250 factory dyno is the fix to the problem.
Right now the KTM is basically the factory dyno. It'd be nice to not have every skin be a KTM reskin. It confuses new people when it doesn't show on the right bike and just generally sucks.
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Quinten
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Re: Dyno balance

Post by Quinten »

jlv wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:27 am
Sorry to play devil's advocate but I think it will add more depth to this conversation.

So that would suggest adding multiple factory dynos? This would also replace the stock dynos, correct? I agree it would be nice to see the actual dyno that the team is currently using. This would only work if all the factory bikes were literally the same and giving a reason to a team to choose the correct dyno with the correct bike skin.

Unless... (The is just me spitballing ideas)
  • More customizability was to be added to the bikes where an individual could customize the motor differently, more in-depth suspension (fork height, race/static sag, etc.), Linkage changes (pull rod length), and so on. You could then even the playing field making every dyno the exact same power/handling-wise solving the "pick the best dyno" reoccurring situation. This would cater to people investing time into creating their own custom setups not only suspension-wise but also in other areas of the bike like the motor for example. Not only could a team in MX Simulator create more detailed suspension for their riders but also simulated "motor-work" for their bikes as well.
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jlv
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Re: Dyno balance

Post by jlv »

Quinten wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:45 pm Sorry to play devil's advocate but I think it will add more depth to this conversation.

So that would suggest adding multiple factory dynos? This would also replace the stock dynos, correct? I agree it would be nice to see the actual dyno that the team is currently using. This would only work if all the factory bikes were literally the same and giving a reason to a team to choose the correct dyno with the correct bike skin.

Unless... (The is just me spitballing ideas)
  • More customizability was to be added to the bikes where an individual could customize the motor differently, more in-depth suspension (fork height, race/static sag, etc.), Linkage changes (pull rod length), and so on. You could then even the playing field making every dyno the exact same power/handling-wise solving the "pick the best dyno" reoccurring situation. This would cater to people investing time into creating their own custom setups not only suspension-wise but also in other areas of the bike like the motor for example. Not only could a team in MX Simulator create more detailed suspension for their riders but also simulated "motor-work" for their bikes as well.
Basically what you're asking for is for me to build this into MXS. I know that's exactly the sort of dumb thing I would have attempted in the past, but it's not gonna happen!

An equal dyno for each brand is what I'm considering. It'll probably be called "spec" rather than "fe" since since the point is to make them equal, not faster.
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Re: Dyno balance

Post by Hi Im Skyqe »

Quinten wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:12 pm I'm not sure what the idea of adding a "factory dyno" is going to do. Everyone is just going to run that dyno over the stock dynos because it's lighter, more hp, etc. What's going to make this idea any different from any other dyno update in the past?

Adding "factory dynos" is going to turn stock dynos obsolete, just saying. I do think the 250 needs substantial fixes but not sure adding a 250 factory dyno is the fix to the problem.
I think the goal is optimization and getting rid of bikes being named under one brand instead of what the bike actually is in game. I still think a 'spec' dyno isn't the fix if it is simply the current preferred dyno added to each of the brands in game. As an example, both the FC and CRF are used in 450 so the issue would still persist here. I think having dyno selection separate from bike selection is a good fix if possible.

I am always for adding more features and adjustments because I am not afraid to try and find improvements. If JLV was to add something where you could have control over power delivery like I suggested earlier it would add to the experience IMO. I always like more features vs moving closer to a spec feel.
Ryan721
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Re: Dyno balance

Post by Ryan721 »

jlv wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:33 am
Quinten wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:45 pm Sorry to play devil's advocate but I think it will add more depth to this conversation.

So that would suggest adding multiple factory dynos? This would also replace the stock dynos, correct? I agree it would be nice to see the actual dyno that the team is currently using. This would only work if all the factory bikes were literally the same and giving a reason to a team to choose the correct dyno with the correct bike skin.

Unless... (The is just me spitballing ideas)
  • More customizability was to be added to the bikes where an individual could customize the motor differently, more in-depth suspension (fork height, race/static sag, etc.), Linkage changes (pull rod length), and so on. You could then even the playing field making every dyno the exact same power/handling-wise solving the "pick the best dyno" reoccurring situation. This would cater to people investing time into creating their own custom setups not only suspension-wise but also in other areas of the bike like the motor for example. Not only could a team in MX Simulator create more detailed suspension for their riders but also simulated "motor-work" for their bikes as well.
Basically what you're asking for is for me to build this into MXS. I know that's exactly the sort of dumb thing I would have attempted in the past, but it's not gonna happen!

An equal dyno for each brand is what I'm considering. It'll probably be called "spec" rather than "fe" since since the point is to make them equal, not faster.
I very much like this idea, this thread went all over the place with great ideas from everyone but at the end of the day, I think "keep it simple stupid" is a good approach. Thanks for all the info and time put into explaining these things to dummies like me it definitely doesn't go unnoticed.
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Re: Dyno balance

Post by motokid499 »

Hi Im Skyqe wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:39 pm I think the goal is optimization and getting rid of bikes being named under one brand instead of what the bike actually is in game. I still think a 'spec' dyno isn't the fix if it is simply the current preferred dyno added to each of the brands in game. As an example, both the FC and CRF are used in 450 so the issue would still persist here. I think having dyno selection separate from bike selection is a good fix if possible.

I am always for adding more features and adjustments because I am not afraid to try and find improvements. If JLV was to add something where you could have control over power delivery like I suggested earlier it would add to the experience IMO. I always like more features vs moving closer to a spec feel.
I still support the spec bikes idea, but if done correctly this could work too. Just like suspension and advanced stability, not many pros run their settings completely identical. It could be cool to see, but many casual players will just source out whatever engine map settings they can find online. Its just one more thing to confuse new players. I think we have to take that into consideration, I support new features and settings 100% if you ask me personally, but whenever I ask any new player why they quit mxs its because there were so many settings and they had no clue what to do with them. Like I said most players just copy and paste setups from the forum etc, never actually gaining an understanding of how to tune their settings. This is why I'm so open to helping new players, theres just so many settings and honestly it confuses the hell out of new players and turns them away.
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Re: Dyno balance

Post by Hi Im Skyqe »

motokid499 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:38 pm
Hi Im Skyqe wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:39 pm I think the goal is optimization and getting rid of bikes being named under one brand instead of what the bike actually is in game. I still think a 'spec' dyno isn't the fix if it is simply the current preferred dyno added to each of the brands in game. As an example, both the FC and CRF are used in 450 so the issue would still persist here. I think having dyno selection separate from bike selection is a good fix if possible.

I am always for adding more features and adjustments because I am not afraid to try and find improvements. If JLV was to add something where you could have control over power delivery like I suggested earlier it would add to the experience IMO. I always like more features vs moving closer to a spec feel.
I still support the spec bikes idea, but if done correctly this could work too. Just like suspension and advanced stability, not many pros run their settings completely identical. It could be cool to see, but many casual players will just source out whatever engine map settings they can find online. Its just one more thing to confuse new players. I think we have to take that into consideration, I support new features and settings 100% if you ask me personally, but whenever I ask any new player why they quit mxs its because there were so many settings and they had no clue what to do with them. Like I said most players just copy and paste setups from the forum etc, never actually gaining an understanding of how to tune their settings. This is why I'm so open to helping new players, theres just so many settings and honestly it confuses the hell out of new players and turns them away.
Not to say a better job couldn't be done by having more in depth easy to understand explanations for each setting all in one post on the forums or even a pop up in game explaining each adjustment however what you describe is also the pro's/con's of a simulation experience. It won't be for everyone.
RFX_corentin_12
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Re: Dyno balance

Post by RFX_corentin_12 »

Getting rid of all the older dynos could be also a good thing imo, no one use older dynos anyway and it would be also easier for new players i think, and like when you doing an dynos update you updating the actual one, you dont add one, so we only get dynos like that:

crf450
fc450
yzf450
sxf450
rmz450
kxf450

And then same for 250 so we dont have like for the 450 crf for exemple: crf450 / crf450v2013/ crf450v2017 (have only 1 dynos per bike would also be easier for new skinners to name the skins correctly)
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jlv
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Re: Dyno balance

Post by jlv »

I could take them out of the menu but they can't be removed entirely because they're needed for old demos.
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Re: Dyno balance

Post by Wahlamt »

RFX_corentin_12 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:12 pm no one use older dynos anyway
You forgot me, I use them from time to time.
jlv wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:57 am I could take them out of the menu but they can't be removed entirely because they're needed for old demos.
Maybe add

Code: Select all

/showolddynos
or something, for us who wants them?
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Re: Dyno balance

Post by Carter »

Wahlamt wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:38 pm
RFX_corentin_12 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:12 pm no one use older dynos anyway
You forgot me, I use them from time to time.
jlv wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:57 am I could take them out of the menu but they can't be removed entirely because they're needed for old demos.
Maybe add

Code: Select all

/showolddynos
or something, for us who wants them?
ah yes, the 2013 ktm is needed for a big send once in a blue moon
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