2022 MotoOption Supercross Round 17 Salt Lake City

[YZmxer322]

First off before my rant, thank you to all of the people involved in making and testing these tracks every week for us, racing or not racing. With that being said this is just my two cents.

Berms: I have no idea why they are rolled off at the top. Nothing is more frustrating than going slightly high in a corner and washing the front. Especially when they are also pretty flat berms. I completely understand that we don't want people hitting extremely easy triple ins, or even quading in, but we should not sacrifice berms for this if this is the reason. It makes the tracks flow sub par.

Traction and Scaling: I actually thought San Diego and the two Anaheim's were relatively realistic traction, but a slightly more slick traction combined with actual bowl/steep berms would be 100 times more fun to ride. I feel as though the rhythms have been also flat and mellow scaling as well. It is not a technical or timing feeling what so ever. I think the rhythms should have a steeper feel to them. Im not wanting to jump 4 or 5 everywhere in rhythms, just a more sx feel. Slicker/more realistic tractions would make it harder for people to hit "video game lines" I just want to rail a berm rut and actually have to huck a steep triple out of a corner. Forgive me.

Atl 2020, SLC2020, SLC2 2021, and 2020 A2 are some of the tracks that mirror what I'm talking about.

[Jeremy150]

First post updated with Anaheim 3

[Jeremy150]

ANAHEIM 3 PASSWORD

w4qRYk7_y37z'[ZU%yR'*3dykjDD/6

[Yamahaman95]

Good lordt have these tracks changed from when I was playing years ago. Everything feels even more oversized. I assume its because of how fast these guys are getting on the 450s and all. The berm designs I also assume are mellow for erode. All and all from the races I have watched online, these all seem to work pretty well together. Hats off to the boys making these every week.

[Yamahaman95]

CAN YOU STOP TO ROLLED OUT THE TOP OF THE BERMS ?

they have to make the berms this way (the rolled out top is another discussion) but to get ruts in the corners they must be mellow. This is a top down gradient. You can't get any ruts to dig in if the angle is steeper in these berms. Which would result in only having ruts (that would be terrible) going in and out of the apex of the turns. Its a necessary evil.

[Jakob Hubbard]

they have to make the berms this way (the rolled out top is another discussion) but to get ruts in the corners they must be mellow. This is a top down gradient. You can't get any ruts to dig in if the angle is steeper in these berms. Which would result in only having ruts (that would be terrible) going in and out of the apex of the turns. Its a necessary evil.

o rly?

[baker]

they have to make the berms this way (the rolled out top is another discussion) but to get ruts in the corners they must be mellow. This is a top down gradient. You can't get any ruts to dig in if the angle is steeper in these berms. Which would result in only having ruts (that would be terrible) going in and out of the apex of the turns. Its a necessary evil.

o rly?

The work you guys have been doing on erode is super sick.

[jgmtbike]

they have to make the berms this way (the rolled out top is another discussion) but to get ruts in the corners they must be mellow. This is a top down gradient. You can't get any ruts to dig in if the angle is steeper in these berms. Which would result in only having ruts (that would be terrible) going in and out of the apex of the turns. Its a necessary evil.

o rly?

The work you guys have been doing on erode is super sick.

I was going to say the same thing Jakob, people think the bowl turns need to be shallow or rolled off for good erode and that's just wrong.

[Yamahaman95]

they have to make the berms this way (the rolled out top is another discussion) but to get ruts in the corners they must be mellow. This is a top down gradient. You can't get any ruts to dig in if the angle is steeper in these berms. Which would result in only having ruts (that would be terrible) going in and out of the apex of the turns. Its a necessary evil.

o rly?

I'm not sure I get your point (I've been away for a long time but everyone keeps telling me erode is the same as when I left in 2018). But if that's a steeper berm, I don't see ruts in through the whole thing. I remember 2018 rd2 had like 2-3 ruts per bowl turn and it was super sick. I'm legit not trying to start an argument. I guess I should take a better look at stuff before acting like its 2018 still.

[Yamahaman95]

o rly?

The work you guys have been doing on erode is super sick.

I was going to say the same thing Jakob, people think the bowl turns need to be shallow or rolled off for good erode and that's just wrong.

i don't think the rolling of the berm has to be done, but with it being a top down grayscale map. In my mind, a steep bowl turn can not have a rut going into it. Not that would be worth a damn. But i'd love to hear your input

[Jakob Hubbard]

I'm not sure I get your point (I've been away for a long time but everyone keeps telling me erode is the same as when I left in 2018). But if that's a steeper berm, I don't see ruts in through the whole thing. I remember 2018 rd2 had like 2-3 ruts per bowl turn and it was super sick. I'm legit not trying to start an argument. I guess I should take a better look at stuff before acting like its 2018 still.

I get yours too. However anything past 2019 has looked exactly like this with erode. Except one line ofc. But, the overall look of ruts in berms hasn't really changed since 2019 and the berms keep getting more and more shallow and rolled off. This is the argument everyone is talking about. Why roll off the berms when there's no need to?

If you can't prevent a quad in on a 450, make the gaps between lanes smaller so the width of the berm is shorter and/or make the berm closer to the rhythm. But with the scaling they're building at this year it's almost impossible to move it any closer to the rhythms and the gap between lanes is almost non-existent.

2018 had some really weird erode settings. One tile was used throughout the entire berm pretty much so that's why a line formed throughout the entirety of the berm. How tile is set up now is they have an entrance, transition, and exit tile. The exit tile builds up much more than the entrance tile. Just watch any race this year on start your systems and you'll see how the entrances are almost non-existent and then there's one massive exit rut.

I get your about a whole line forming throughout the berm, but erode settings have changed. Berms were also really good in 2018 and imo should be the standard for building. Except the 180 corner before the whoops at Indianapolis, don't know what they were doing there lol. But the whole argument is stop rolling off the berms when there's been proven instances of there not needing to be rolled off berms.

[Yamahaman95]

I'm not sure I get your point (I've been away for a long time but everyone keeps telling me erode is the same as when I left in 2018). But if that's a steeper berm, I don't see ruts in through the whole thing. I remember 2018 rd2 had like 2-3 ruts per bowl turn and it was super sick. I'm legit not trying to start an argument. I guess I should take a better look at stuff before acting like its 2018 still.

I get yours too. However anything past 2019 has looked exactly like this with erode. Except one line ofc. But, the overall look of ruts in berms hasn't really changed since 2019 and the berms keep getting more and more shallow and rolled off. This is the argument everyone is talking about. Why roll off the berms when there's no need to?

If you can't prevent a quad in on a 450, make the gaps between lanes smaller so the width of the berm is shorter and/or make the berm closer to the rhythm. But with the scaling they're building at this year it's almost impossible to move it any closer to the rhythms and the gap between lanes is almost non-existent.

2018 had some really weird erode settings. One tile was used throughout the entire berm pretty much so that's why a line formed throughout the entirety of the berm. How tile is set up now is they have an entrance, transition, and exit tile. The exit tile builds up much more than the entrance tile. Just watch any race this year on start your systems and you'll see how the entrances are almost non-existent and then there's one massive exit rut.

I get your about a whole line forming throughout the berm, but erode settings have changed. Berms were also really good in 2018 and imo should be the standard for building. Except the 180 corner before the whoops at Indianapolis, don't know what they were doing there lol. But the whole argument is stop rolling off the berms when there's been proven instances of there not needing to be rolled off berms.

I'm picking up what you're putting down now. the bad part about 2018 is that it was a Ginny pig year with erode. I've watched a couple races so far this year and I'm sad to see the 1 pushed out rut in the mains. I think this is why the racing seems to being doing so much better because before you had to find "a rut" in the corners, not "the rut". I'm not sure their reasoning for the rolled off berms though. It seems like most of the corner issues everyone is complaining about is due to the way the sections are built. The jumps seem to have a much longer roll on the tops, making the gaps bigger in the the sections. It feels like instead of fully changing the corners or the sections, they made a compromise between them both if that makes any sense.

[ktm161]

I'm not sure I get your point (I've been away for a long time but everyone keeps telling me erode is the same as when I left in 2018). But if that's a steeper berm, I don't see ruts in through the whole thing. I remember 2018 rd2 had like 2-3 ruts per bowl turn and it was super sick. I'm legit not trying to start an argument. I guess I should take a better look at stuff before acting like its 2018 still.

I get yours too. However anything past 2019 has looked exactly like this with erode. Except one line ofc. But, the overall look of ruts in berms hasn't really changed since 2019 and the berms keep getting more and more shallow and rolled off. This is the argument everyone is talking about. Why roll off the berms when there's no need to?

If you can't prevent a quad in on a 450, make the gaps between lanes smaller so the width of the berm is shorter and/or make the berm closer to the rhythm. But with the scaling they're building at this year it's almost impossible to move it any closer to the rhythms and the gap between lanes is almost non-existent.

2018 had some really weird erode settings. One tile was used throughout the entire berm pretty much so that's why a line formed throughout the entirety of the berm. How tile is set up now is they have an entrance, transition, and exit tile. The exit tile builds up much more than the entrance tile. Just watch any race this year on start your systems and you'll see how the entrances are almost non-existent and then there's one massive exit rut.

I get your about a whole line forming throughout the berm, but erode settings have changed. Berms were also really good in 2018 and imo should be the standard for building. Except the 180 corner before the whoops at Indianapolis, don't know what they were doing there lol. But the whole argument is stop rolling off the berms when there's been proven instances of there not needing to be rolled off berms.

I'm picking up what you're putting down now. the bad part about 2018 is that it was a Ginny pig year with erode. I've watched a couple races so far this year and I'm sad to see the 1 pushed out rut in the mains. I think this is why the racing seems to being doing so much better because before you had to find "a rut" in the corners, not "the rut". I'm not sure their reasoning for the rolled off berms though. It seems like most of the corner issues everyone is complaining about is due to the way the sections are built. The jumps seem to have a much longer roll on the tops, making the gaps bigger in the the sections. It feels like instead of fully changing the corners or the sections, they made a compromise between them both if that makes any sense.

in my opinion i would like to see rhythm/jumps closer together to make it where you have to down side the jumps to get the 3. atm most of the tracks this year seem to be catering the ams as in you just hold it pinned oj a triple in the middle of a rhythm and get the next triple. like theres no skill of timing/down siding jumps any more and before anyone says i suck. yes i suck and i would much rather not make mains bc i messed up a rhythm or something instead of not making a main bc billy bad a** UID 45678900 can just hold it pinned and make it around the track. also id like to say that in 2017-2019ish we had great tracks and berms and we were all on the fc dyno that we run today so people can stop saying oh we have so much more power now bc the fact is we dont. #makewhoopshard and please bring back bowl turns. one more point i have since im all over the place is A1 qualy session 1 erode was set at .5 and we had to switch our lines in a 10 min qual session with 13 people bc of the chop. if we have great berms and tile put down a bit more in the berm whos to say we cant ride .5 erode for a 20 min main with 22 riders? (rf runs .23 or .25 during the races)

[Jakob Hubbard]

in my opinion i would like to see rhythm/jumps closer together to make it where you have to down side the jumps to get the 3. atm most of the tracks this year seem to be catering the ams as in you just hold it pinned oj a triple in the middle of a rhythm and get the next triple. like theres no skill of timing/down siding jumps any more

I +1 this. I just genuinely think we are at a overscaled scaling. The gaps between 3 footers from peak-peak on anaheim 3 are about 41ft. Average gap between 3 footers irl is about 32ft. That's 1.28:1 scaling. For comparison, the gaps of 3 footers on 2018 arlington are about 40ft. So pretty much identical scaling, yet we get rolled off berms and very janky rhythms, whereas 2018 had some really flowy tracks.

I've personally been experimenting with 1.15:1 scaling and it seems to work pretty well. You're able to quad mid-rhythm on a 450 but there is a skill gap to it, triple in's are still tricky on 250 but as long as you get the berm clean and have decent throttle control it's no problem. It's a lot of fun. We haven't tested it for racing yet, but it's an overall slower track and hopefully slower track will allow for more bumping and banging without insta death.

[ktm161]

in my opinion i would like to see rhythm/jumps closer together to make it where you have to down side the jumps to get the 3. atm most of the tracks this year seem to be catering the ams as in you just hold it pinned oj a triple in the middle of a rhythm and get the next triple. like theres no skill of timing/down siding jumps any more

I +1 this. I just genuinely think we are at a overscaled scaling. The gaps between 3 footers from peak-peak on anaheim 3 are about 41ft. Average gap between 3 footers irl is about 32ft. That's 1.28:1 scaling. For comparison, the gaps of 3 footers on 2018 arlington are about 40ft. So pretty much identical scaling, yet we get rolled off berms and very janky rhythms, whereas 2018 had some really flowy tracks.

ive checked a couple different years and some 3 footers peak to peak were between 36-38ft and those tracks felt awesome also. at A2 we had a couple 3 footers peak to peak 45ft. the scaling has gone up way to far i my opinion. if we could just go back to some 2018 tracks the racing would bc so much closer i think