Political Debate Thread

[DBRider251]

DoucheBagRider251

God Havoc you're HILARIOUS guy. No way I'm going to recover from that one.

No need for name calling. The reason this thread is bearable is because we're mostly respectful to each other even when we disagree.

When has Havoc ever been respectful to someone with a different political stance than him? All he does is name call and ad-hominem, and gets away with it because he plays the 'haha funny I'm old' card

[hvpmvp]

I could give two shits who won, if a large part of the general population is doubting the legitimacy of the election for good reason given the information being spread then there should be an investigation and explanation to address the people. If it was the most secure election in history, there should be nothing to worry about.

Is Trump and affiliates losing nearly every court case centered around fraud not sufficient evidence that there was no fraud?

[jlv]

When has Havoc ever been respectful to someone with a different political stance than him? All he does is name call and ad-hominem, and gets away with it because he plays the 'haha funny I'm old' card

He's always been respectful to me. But I am the admin so it's easier for me. I tend to cut people more slack when they're getting ganged up on and Havoc is a bit outnumbered here.

So was the coup attempt enough for you guys or are you still on board the Trump train? I'm curious if he's finally jumped the shark this time.

[Hi Im Skyqe]

I could give two shits who won, if a large part of the general population is doubting the legitimacy of the election for good reason given the information being spread then there should be an investigation and explanation to address the people. If it was the most secure election in history, there should be nothing to worry about.

Is Trump and affiliates losing nearly every court case centered around fraud not sufficient evidence that there was no fraud?

Court hearings weren't heard in many cases and in others dismissed due to jurisdiction issues.

The phone call said lots both ways to me. I don't feel the Trump team has an abundance of extra information unless they are playing there cards tight which I would doubt at this point. It was said 'If you drop the lawsuits we could give that information'. How can something be disproven if public information is incorrect as they are saying and the correct information cannot be not shared? If Trump is spreading disinformation, prove it to the public because it is needed at this point.

The media isn't covering the magnitude of today, there was a huge number of people in DC today as reported by many smaller outlets. Some saying as many or more as Trump's inauguration... The fact that Loeffler just changed sides is not going to help. What does radicals invading have to do with your belief on voter fraud? The two aren't related what so ever.

JLV I don't think it is at all about Trump at this point, the public needs reassurance.

[hvpmvp]

Court hearings weren't heard in many cases and in others dismissed due to jurisdiction issues.

is over 50 lawsuits from multiple parties not enough to prove there was even a little bit of fraud? Both the courts and states have investigated and found nothing

[jlv]

JLV I don't think it is at all about Trump at this point, the public needs reassurance.

If going 2 months in court without a significant win doesn't convince you nothing will. This was often with Trump appointed judges. Do you think stuff like this changed any minds or will they just move on to the next X-Files conspiracy?

I'm still curious though, has Trump lost you yet? Was today enough?

[jlv]

Good God...

[TeamHavocRacing]

It's gonna be real funny seeing who wants to defend this shit and say there's a constitutional right or some horribly misguided defense. I shudder to think what some of you kids have been taught to get to this level of denial. How quaint. Completely White and Uptight and Might Makes Right!!! USA!!!USA!!!USA!!!

[DBRider251]

Good God...

Is that saying 56% of interviewed thought there was fraud?

[Hi Im Skyqe]

is over 50 lawsuits from multiple parties not enough to prove there was even a little bit of fraud? Both the courts and states have investigated and found nothing

I don't think the Trump team handled it properly and got caught being cute going for home runs. Trump's attitude putting on pressure from the outset was a bad approach. Nobody wanted to work with Trump when they were being attacked by him.

People were charged for fraud though so that isn't really true.

JLV I don't think it is at all about Trump at this point, the public needs reassurance.

If going 2 months in court without a significant win doesn't convince you nothing will. This was often with Trump appointed judges. Do you think stuff like this changed any minds or will they just move on to the next X-Files conspiracy?

I'm still curious though, has Trump lost you yet? Was today enough?

I don't think people will believe what they are saying. With the videos posted about the recount being BS among other issues brought up. I don't think many of the people upset with the outcome won't believe anything other than an audit.

I thought it was a loss once the case was dismissed by the SCOTUS.

[jlv]

Good God...

Is that saying 56% of interviewed thought there was fraud?

56% of the people who believe fraud changed the outcome approve of the Capital building attack. That doesn't bother me so much since believing the conspiracy theories puts them in the kook camp already so it's not a surprise they also support a coup. What bothers me is the plurality of Republicans approving of the attack. Trump has brought the party lower than I would have ever believed.

[jlv]

I don't think people will believe what they are saying. With the videos posted about the recount being BS among other issues brought up. I don't think many of the people upset with the outcome won't believe anything other than an audit.

I thought it was a loss once the case was dismissed by the SCOTUS.

But do you still support Trump after the attack on the Capital building while the joint session was counting the votes? I was hoping it might wake people up but maybe not.

Also, more audits are pointless. The only audit that will be accepted is one that gives Trump the win. And you can't do that by counting honestly. He did not lose by a small margin.

[Hi Im Skyqe]

I don't think people will believe what they are saying. With the videos posted about the recount being BS among other issues brought up. I don't think many of the people upset with the outcome won't believe anything other than an audit.

I thought it was a loss once the case was dismissed by the SCOTUS.

But do you still support Trump after the attack on the Capital building while the joint session was counting the votes? I was hoping it might wake people up but maybe not.

Also, more audits are pointless. The only audit that will be accepted is one that gives Trump the win. And you can't do that by counting honestly. He did not lose by a small margin.

No I think Trump was far to aggressive and should have laid out much more ground rules ahead of time while organizing this rally. I don't agree however that bad people should have been the out used to stop going ahead with members plan to object the fraud if they truly believed there was fraud. Punishing 74 million people over 500 people being absolutely stupid isn't correct in my opinion. Not even looking into conspiracies it should be noted that the vast majority of the people gathered did not partake in the invasion of the capital. The fact that some did is sad and they should be punished for it. But unfortunately I do not believe this will be the end with how the political figures are addressing the situation from both sides. As Tim IRL has said on his podcast they are attempting to put out a fire with blow torches.

I wasn't ever a huge fan of Trump. If she would have made it, I would say Tulsi Gabbard would be a great revelation but that isn't the direction of the democrat party. The two sides are very far apart right now in my opinion, due to the backlash from Trump I could see a third party being a possibility.

As for supporting Trump? I was more a fan of the general idea that politics needs a revamp. The monetary ties run deep in the career politicians of today. The handouts skew vision of what they are employed by the people to do. Not much these days is being done with countries best interests in mind it's all about personal gain at almost all costs.. Look at this COVID relief bill as a prime example.

It isn't about Trump getting back in. If the original vote in GA for Perdue was rigged where he actually won and can be verified, that should be thoroughly investigated. Which there is a case by a 3rd party still in progress working towards that. If that was to happen, there goes the democrat control.

Weather there was or wasn't fraud, if investigations were done, verifiable proof was supplied which some states claim they have then reasonable people will be given some sort of comfort from that I am sure. I just think there is enough of an issue raised that people do want answers. The current plan of antagonizing the situation is not going to end well, if there are extremists doing what has already happened. Pushing them further isn't going to help, the situation needs to be diffused.

[TeamHavocRacing]

I was hoping it might wake people up but maybe not.

Nope. They just continue to pretend there was enough fraud to just overturn the results. All of them. It's just inconceivable to these people that more than just liberals were upset by this and grew tired of the betrayal. Look at the mass exodus of his cabinet. All I hear is "There has to more to this, I don't believe the results!" No. When both parties have electors and observers agree it was a fair election, then grow up, grow a pair and vote again next cycle. This whole butt-hurt acting out and attempting a coup shows how futile it is trying to reason with terrorists. They're sore losers flipping the card table over instead of taking it like a man. Same goes for the anarchists that blend in with peaceful protestors only to tear up whatever area they're in. I have a sinking feeling this generation has a harder time sorting shit out and just demanding their way without conciliatory measures. All or none. It just happened here where they tore up a little village because some mental case pulled a knife on cops, lunged at them and they shot and killed her. She happened to be black. However, in the eyes of the Alt-White they don't get to do that and God forbid a similar thing would happen with Antifa or BLM pulling this coup attempt. They'd still be mopping up blood and guts. So sad!

[jlv]

No I think Trump was far to aggressive and should have laid out much more ground rules ahead of time while organizing this rally. I don't agree however that bad people should have been the out used to stop going ahead with members plan to object the fraud if they truly believed there was fraud. Punishing 74 million people over 500 people being absolutely stupid isn't correct in my opinion. Not even looking into conspiracies it should be noted that the vast majority of the people gathered did not partake in the invasion of the capital. The fact that some did is sad and they should be punished for it. But unfortunately I do not believe this will be the end with how the political figures are addressing the situation from both sides. As Tim IRL has said on his podcast they are attempting to put out a fire with blow torches.

I wasn't ever a huge fan of Trump. If she would have made it, I would say Tulsi Gabbard would be a great revelation but that isn't the direction of the democrat party. The two sides are very far apart right now in my opinion, due to the backlash from Trump I could see a third party being a possibility.

As for supporting Trump? I was more a fan of the general idea that politics needs a revamp. The monetary ties run deep in the career politicians of today. The handouts skew vision of what they are employed by the people to do. Not much these days is being done with countries best interests in mind it's all about personal gain at almost all costs.. Look at this COVID relief bill as a prime example.

It isn't about Trump getting back in. If the original vote in GA for Perdue was rigged where he actually won and can be verified, that should be thoroughly investigated. Which there is a case by a 3rd party still in progress working towards that. If that was to happen, there goes the democrat control.

Weather there was or wasn't fraud, if investigations were done, verifiable proof was supplied which some states claim they have then reasonable people will be given some sort of comfort from that I am sure. I just think there is enough of an issue raised that people do want answers. The current plan of antagonizing the situation is not going to end well, if there are extremists doing what has already happened. Pushing them further isn't going to help, the situation needs to be diffused.

The usual way to give closure to the losing side is for the candidate to concede an election he obviously lost. At this point the whole 75 million voters thing does more to indict those voters' judgement than it does to legitimize Trump. This guy cheered on a violent attack on the capital building during a joint session of congress counting the electoral votes that left five people dead. He is an insane sociopath and he never even tried to hide it. The people who endorsed him and argued that character doesn't matter need to take their shattered credibility and go home. The people who listened to them need to find better leaders. This isn't fun for me since there are a lot of people who I used to like who I can never take seriously again.

On a more positive note, here's a different poll showing some hope for sanity in the Republican party.