Political Debate Thread

[DBRider251]

"Justice for J6"? It's already been served. They're in jail.

You don't know what the rally was for? Typical.

There are people in connection with Jan6 that haven't been given their right to a speedy trial. Regardless if they did it or not, they deserve rights established in our constitution.

[danielcito672]

I voted for Biden, and i think hes done a fine job. Vaccines should definitely be a choice, tying to force people to get it or trying to force people or convince people to not get it I dont agree with, let ppl make their own decisions. i despise trump, but there are good trump supporters. The election was not stolen, nor was it stolen in y2k, both had fishy business, but I believe our democracy is intact in both cases. If you disagree with any of my statements, calling me a libtard or commie wont solve anything

[m121c]

Left biased media finally acknowledging that aspects of the Hunter Biden Laptop/email scandal is true... almost a year after they pushed so hard to establish it as “false” “misinformation “russia propaganda to influence election”.

Wonder what other things those key words are used for.

Just a reminder... saying something is false WITHOUT references is just as moronic as saying something is true WITHOUT references. Saying “I don’t know” is not letting the crazy win on either side.

No proof is not in itself evidence of truth when you are not looking for any said proof.

At what point does this start to become domestic propaganda that influences our elections?

I now expect social media giants will begin to apply their community standards equally and will warn, temporary suspend, and or put disclaimers on the left biased news organizations accounts/posts. /sarcasm

[DBRider251]

I now expect social media giants will begin to apply their community standards equally and will warn, temporary suspend, and or put disclaimers on the left biased news organizations accounts/posts. /sarcasm

[TeamHavocRacing]

At what point does this start to become domestic propaganda that influences our elections?

Boy! You sure hit the nail on the head! Dominion anyone? At what point do you concede the election? At what point do you change emphasis away from the Big Lie and actually talk about policy other than stopping the steal? There's sooooo many Trump things to reconcile first before you can point the finger.

[m121c]

You are assuming I am one that sees fact that the election was stolen.

Maybe I should put this a different way.

Theres a box that might or might not have puzzle pieces in it. You can open the box and see if any pieces are inside, and if there are try to see if they make a cohesive picture.

Now you have to extreme sides.

Hard right types (QAnon and the like) who say no need to look in the box, its clear they are all there because the box hints at that.

Hard left types who don’t want to even suggest there is a box and we have no pieces in sight, so clearly no image/puzzle exists at all. (This is your group incase you aren’t seeing that).

I have not stated to be on either side. I think neither side is right. Theres a puzzle piece sitting on the table without any context as to what image it might make up.

And there is ton of policy talk in regards to election safety, where have you been? It is evident that they way our last election was done was far from what we should be considered as a standard.

I kind of thought your rationale would get more coherent now that Trump is out of the WH...

[jlv]

Left biased media finally acknowledging that aspects of the Hunter Biden Laptop/email scandal is true... almost a year after they pushed so hard to establish it as “false” “misinformation “russia propaganda to influence election”.

Wonder what other things those key words are used for.

Just a reminder... saying something is false WITHOUT references is just as moronic as saying something is true WITHOUT references. Saying “I don’t know” is not letting the crazy win on either side.

No proof is not in itself evidence of truth when you are not looking for any said proof.

At what point does this start to become domestic propaganda that influences our elections?

I now expect social media giants will begin to apply their community standards equally and will warn, temporary suspend, and or put disclaimers on the left biased news organizations accounts/posts. /sarcasm

I agree that there is a left wing bias in "mainstream" media. With that said, they haven't done anywhere close to the damage to conservative politics that was done by the right leaning media. Do you really think they would have let a clown like Trump take over the Democrat party? Would they push election fraud conspiracies that only serve to depress their own party's turnout? Would they push anti-vax FUD that is literally killing their audience? On the right we used to laugh at the anti-vax morons. Now they're the base. That's not CNN or Twitter's fault.

It was the right wing media's job to prevent a bunch of charlatans from taking over the party. Instead of informing and protecting their viewers they decided to cash in on it instead.

[m121c]

I agree that there is a left wing bias in "mainstream" media. With that said, they haven't done anywhere close to the damage to conservative politics that was done by the right leaning media. Do you really think they would have let a clown like Trump take over the Democrat party? Would they push election fraud conspiracies that only serve to depress their own party's turnout? Would they push anti-vax FUD that is literally killing their audience? On the right we used to laugh at the anti-vax morons. Now they're the base. That's not CNN or Twitter's fault.

It was the right wing media's job to prevent a bunch of charlatans from taking over the party. Instead of informing and protecting their viewers they decided to cash in on it instead.

I know I am pretty much always dogging the left MSM, but I don't necessarily disagree with you. I will say, Fox was critical to Trump at a point. I would say more so than the main MSM camp is on their own political favorites, however, much like the main lefty MSM, a lot of right wing media has fallen for the ratings over everything agenda.

I think outside of conservative politics though, left biased MSM has damaged society. They are horribly hypocritical, condescending, and corrupt. Really just disingenuous to their core, down right unethical. It's become a weird cohesive circle of misguided activism. Sure Fox News is pretty terrible, but they are not almost exclusively featured in workplaces, public areas, air ports, etc. To top it off, they do not have the Social Media platform giants to control the online public discourse in their favor.

Now, I have no studies or links to any of this, this is just merely my anecdotal experience/opinion.

Would they push anti-vax FUD that is literally killing their audience? On the right we used to laugh at the anti-vax morons. Now they're the base.

This is an argument I just can't fully get behind yet. Hard MAGA followers should be lining up for the shot with how "cult-like" the left wants to make the base out to be. After all, the vaccine was initiated and endorsed under Trump. In fact, it was the DNC who pushed the hesitancy campaign right off the bat. Trump to this day still pushes for it because he see's it as a win.

I could be wrong, I haven't really taken a hard look at the numbers, but to me this seems more of a narrative to fuel more division. From my perspective vaccine hesitation is not the result of an vaccine conspiracy but 2 administrations failing to have clear policy, priorities, goals, and transparent information. In addition, I think the news media 24/7 fear porn marathon has grossly skewed public opinion both ways.

This is alarming to me:



For the record, the actual estimated % risk is 1-5% with it being around 2% actual. I don't know of any data on how people feel on vaccine risk but I would bet it in the republican favor. My point being is our government, politics, and journalism has failed the people. It really comes down to who is willing to believe those in power, and when conservatives see left MSM/Social Media cozying up to authoritative-like politicians/policy... why would they think anything is a good intended? I don't believe they are Anti-Vax... I think they are not about THIS Vax. For that, we have to start asking WHY. The only way to change peoples minds is to have open discussion, NOT force.

Much like saying the Hunter Biden story was Russia meddling in the election and that it was all false... we can't keep going on this loop of dismissing potential truths just because they go against the narrative.

[Pumaxcs]

FUD

I know a new phrase when I see it. What sort of stonks you hodling JLV?

[Pumaxcs]

I know I am pretty much always dogging the left MSM, but I don't necessarily disagree with you. I will say, Fox was critical to Trump at a point. I would say more so than the main MSM camp is on their own political favorites, however, much like the main lefty MSM, a lot of right wing media has fallen for the ratings over everything agenda.

I think outside of conservative politics though, left biased MSM has damaged society. They are horribly hypocritical, condescending, and corrupt. Really just disingenuous to their core, down right unethical. It's become a weird cohesive circle of misguided activism. Sure Fox News is pretty terrible, but they are not almost exclusively featured in workplaces, public areas, air ports, etc. To top it off, they do not have the Social Media platform giants to control the online public discourse in their favor.

Now, I have no studies or links to any of this, this is just merely my anecdotal experience/opinion.

https://twitter.com/PumaXCS/status/878355936347377668




Meanwhile
https://theweek.com/10things/701977/10- ... ne-23-2017

[jlv]

I think outside of conservative politics though, left biased MSM has damaged society. They are horribly hypocritical, condescending, and corrupt. Really just disingenuous to their core, down right unethical. It's become a weird cohesive circle of misguided activism. Sure Fox News is pretty terrible, but they are not almost exclusively featured in workplaces, public areas, air ports, etc. To top it off, they do not have the Social Media platform giants to control the online public discourse in their favor.

I don't think the problem is bias. Everything has a bias. You just have to take that into account for whatever you're watching. People living in media bubbles is more of a problem IMO. Up until very recently, it's been almost impossible for a conservative to live in a bubble since the liberal media was basically unavoidable. I think that actually worked to our advantage in ways. I know there have been a lot of times where I've been talking with a liberal and while I'm already aware of every point they make, I'm telling them stuff they've never heard before. That's because they were in liberal bubbles whereas I was forced to watch liberal stuff all the time because it was everywhere and I had no choice.

That forced conservatives to have positions that were stronger when challenged.

Now with social media, streaming and targeted advertising, instead of seeing stuff that might challenge your worldview, everything reinforces whatever you already believe and even leads you deeper in. Say you're watching Fox, the algorithm says "hey if you like Fox, how about Newsmax?", "you like that? How about OAN?". Next thing you know you're watching Infowars and you think Trump is getting reinstated. It's not a healthy place to be.

FUD

I know a new phrase when I see it. What sort of stonks you hodling JLV?

That's an old one from Gene Amdahl. He was trying to sell IBM compatible mainframes and IBM was trying to scare people away. Pretty brilliant guy. Even though Cray was making faster computers at the time, the Amdahl designed IBM 360 looks really good in hindsight. IBM still uses the same basic architecture today. The newest Z series IBM computers can still run 50 year old 360 code!

[baker]

IBM is still on that FORTRAN kick I guess

[DBRider251]

IBM is still on that FORTRAN kick I guess

PRINT *, "What's wrong with FORTRAN?"

[jlv]

IBM is still on that FORTRAN kick I guess 😂

More likely COBOL on an IBM mainframe. Fortran is actually better than C/C++ in a lot of ways.

[jlv]

Gotta hand it to IBM. They're still updating PL/1.