Political Debate Thread

I've heard conversation coming out of animal pens that is more intelligent than what is going on in here.
baker
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by baker »

jlv wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:28 am
baker wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:52 pm The only place McCarthy went wrong is a accusing literally everyone. Otherwise I wish the red scare would happen again. It fathoms me how much dumb college students think communism is a good thing and preach kill capitalism while they browse Amazon on a Mac drinking Starbucks.
I don't think his tactics were right. He was basically using communist tactics to fight communists. It won't work in a free country.

But he was absolutely right about Soviets/Russians trying to put their people in positions of influence everywhere. You can still see it now with Russian stooges in pretty much every country's government, schools, and media. Also influential NGOs. Someone from Amnesty International of all places is pushing Russian bullshit right now.
Yessir. He did it wrong but his original intent I 100% agree with.
baker
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by baker »

Pumaxcs wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:34 am
baker wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:52 pm The only place McCarthy went wrong is a accusing literally everyone. Otherwise I wish the red scare would happen again. It fathoms me how much dumb college students think communism is a good thing and preach kill capitalism while they browse Amazon on a Mac drinking Starbucks.
LMAO you did the meme

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Yet you participate!!
TeamHavocRacing
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by TeamHavocRacing »

I'm trying to be less of a blowhard. Otherwise, I'd have too much "fun" here right now. Go Ukraine!
jlv wrote:If it weren't for Havoc I'd have been arguing with the 12 year olds by myself.
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by DBRider251 »

I thought this thread finally died, only for Havoc to bring it back
TeamHavocRacing wrote:it's all the liberals fault
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by TeamHavocRacing »

I wasn't domestically topical. Like I said, I've been very good lately about NOT kicking folks while they're down! If you felt a sting from that, then that's a you problem. Was it the Ukraine mention?
jlv wrote:If it weren't for Havoc I'd have been arguing with the 12 year olds by myself.
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by Racers52 »

The US can agree to send billions to Ukraine, but Jackson MS doesn't have clean drinking water

Priorities are totally in line :wink:
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by TeamHavocRacing »

You bit. I won't. Again, like I said. I don't need to unleash here. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.
jlv wrote:If it weren't for Havoc I'd have been arguing with the 12 year olds by myself.
Racers52
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by Racers52 »

Military Industrial Complex bit, I'm just pointing out what should be obvious

Twitter files? It's not really surprising to me that government agencies (that we don't control with our vote) collude to set narratives as this is the status quo since post-WW2. JLV made a good point a while back that conservatives need to do more government reduction than government addition.

In other news cold weather is hitting hard this week, I'd like to see how they fit record low temps in the south into climate change narratives :D
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by jlv »

Racers52 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:05 pm The US can agree to send billions to Ukraine, but Jackson MS doesn't have clean drinking water

Priorities are totally in line :wink:
It's funny, when Trump first ran, the Dilbert guy was pointing out how he had great persuasive powers. I agree with that, but he didn't persuade liberals to change one bit. What he did was sell the right on policy that is in total agreement with Michael Moore. Right now we've been handed an opportunity to completely destroy the Russian military for a cost that's a few percent of our annual defense budget. But we want to pass that up because we're listening to a bunch of Russian stooges now. What you wrote sounds like something you'd hear from Michael Moore or Code Pink. It sucks that it's coming from the right now.

The right should be attacking Biden for not sending enough help to Ukraine. It's sickening to see them effectively siding the Russians instead. I'd love to see us give Russia the finger and send F-16s and A-10s. Let them see what it's really like to fight NATO.

Sorry for the rant. Now I have a non-partisan hypothetical to pose to you guys:

One thing that's funny about the war, Russia keeps sending guys into the meat grinder at a rate of a few hundred per day. It's like a human trickle attack. They're sending people to certain death but in numbers that aren't a threat. What if they saved them up for a month and did an actual human wave attack? If they sent 10,000 at once at Bakmut in a human wave charge would they successfully overrun it or would they just get mowed down by .50 caliber guns?

It'd still be pointless of course but it'd be interesting to see what would happen.
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by Racers52 »

jlv wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 1:36 am The right should be attacking Biden for not sending enough help to Ukraine. It's sickening to see them effectively siding the Russians instead. I'd love to see us give Russia the finger and send F-16s and A-10s. Let them see what it's really like to fight NATO.
Russia is another nuclear superpower, and has an unstable leader who has sole command of its nuclear policies. That's a dangerous game of chicken I don't want to see play out

Why actually fight Russia when you can drag out the war and continuously pump money into the military-industrial complex (Afghanistan?)

Lets also address that we the tax payer, well, really our future Americans have paid more towards Ukraine than all of EU which I don't think is right.
Atleast have the EU match our contributions at minimum
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by TeamHavocRacing »

Racers52 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:21 pmI'd like to see how they fit record low temps in the south into climate change narratives :D
Here's where I bite. Some people drink from the fountain of knowledge, while you merely gargle. You see ice or snow and you repeat the mantra... "Global warming, huh?" Go on and joke about it. Do you have kids?
jlv wrote:If it weren't for Havoc I'd have been arguing with the 12 year olds by myself.
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by Racers52 »

TeamHavocRacing wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:39 pm Here's where I bite. Some people drink from the fountain of knowledge, while you merely gargle. You see ice or snow and you repeat the mantra... "Global warming, huh?" Go on and joke about it. Do you have kids?
No thoughts on any of my other topics of discussion?

I don't have kids yet.

What fountain of knowledge do you claim to drink from? Link some peer-reviewed literature that can account for every variable affecting our climate because fearmongering climate won't work. I don't think our models are advanced enough to account for every variable and our data set (modern human history) is not large enough when plugged into the entire history of the planet. Too many meta-analytic conclusions based on small data windows (which in themselves could be inaccurate).
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by SemW »

Racers52 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:05 pm The US can agree to send billions to Ukraine, but Jackson MS doesn't have clean drinking water
Priorities are totally in line :wink:
most of the billions that are being talked about are original military procurement costs from when the weapons where purchased like 30/40 yrs ago. the USA/EU is getting rid of redundant weapons that were going to be retired anyway while also eliminating their main enemy for the past 70 yrs. sounds like a pretty good deal to me ;). most of the other aid being given/loaned is for basic things like ensuring food/energy/water supply to damaged parts in Ukraine.
Racers52 wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:25 am Lets also address that we the tax payer, well, really our future Americans have paid more towards Ukraine than all of EU which I don't think is right.
Atleast have the EU match our contributions at minimum
the EU cant match the USA in delivering military aid because most European militaries have been underfunded since the end of the cold war and simply dont have enough weapons/ammo. the USA is also making huge amounts of money from this war on new military purchases coming in from new orders by European militaries that finally start investing more money into upgrading their armies.

Putin knows that using nukes is suicide cuz Moscow and the rest of Russia's military would be gone by NATO forces/nukes in a few minutes. i can also imagine China having a major part in keeping Russia from using nukes. a war between NATO and Russia would heavily disrupt global trade and China is dependent on trade.

knowing Russia's past tactics they will just keep throwing troops at it until there are none left. whatever comes after that is uncertain but i can imagine it ending in a civil war/collapse of Russia.
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by jlv »

Racers52 wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:25 am Russia is another nuclear superpower, and has an unstable leader who has sole command of its nuclear policies. That's a dangerous game of chicken I don't want to see play out
The thing is, if he could get away with it, Putin would nuke a city for a pack of gum. What prevents him from doing that is the consequences. It doesn't matter how nice we are to him beforehand. If anything kissing his ass makes him doubt our resolve to hit back. What matters is that he's absolutely certain that initiating a nuclear attack will result in his annihilation. That's why all this talk about how maybe there shouldn't be an nuclear response if he nukes Ukraine is provocatively weak. The policy should be that if you launch nukes you'll get nuclear annihilation. Even if it's a bluff there's no downside to it. There are no more red lines after that.

This is another thing that Biden is weak on, but instead of pushing the correct Reaganesque hard line stance the Republicans are busy demanding an even weaker appeasement policy worthy of Code Pink. Submitting to nuclear blackmail is dangerously weak. It makes nuclear war more likely.
Racers52 wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:25 am Why actually fight Russia when you can drag out the war and continuously pump money into the military-industrial complex (Afghanistan?)
Because the Ukrainians don't deserve it. Plus I really want to see F-16s and A-10s destroying Russian tanks!
Racers52 wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:25 am Lets also address that we the tax payer, well, really our future Americans have paid more towards Ukraine than all of EU which I don't think is right.
Atleast have the EU match our contributions at minimum
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I agree. Although I'm pretty sure that Poland and some of the other Eastern Bloc have us beat on a per capita basis.
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m121c
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Re: Political Debate Thread

Post by m121c »

Im not fully spun up on the foreign affairs of Ukraine. Because of that, my skepticism/questions of it are probably more a symptom of my ignorance.. nonetheless..

I get cautious to support anything Ukraine heres why:

1) The party that seems so thirsty to fight, is the party that seemingly has taken an anti war stance for decades, and were recently the doomsday WW3 alarmists when Trump took strong stances. There ALWAYS seems to be motives behind their emotional stances. They replaced paper masks and experimental vaccines with Ukraine flag profile pictures and climate change sensationalism.

2) The whole war seems like a battle between two shady and corrupt governments, that seemingly have ties to American politicians and their families. Some of which our three letter institutions have recently been exposed on suppressing/censoring information about with private sector social media.. even more, going as far as fabricating the blame on one of said corrupt countries in this war.

3) Zelensky seems like a con man actor as much as Putin.

Where I can agree is for the U.S. to take military advantage where we can against our foreign enemies. We can’t be have blinders focus on one mega enemy and leave ourselves vulnerable to other major enemies..

Anyhow those are my thoughts.

Lets not forget this:
Racers52 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:21 pm Twitter files?
Its amazing to me how the FBIs response is to gaslight Americans as “conspiracy theorists trying to tarnish the agency”.

They. Got. Caught.
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