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Pumaxcs wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:34 pmTurning a blind eye to any wrongdoing is not a political thing, it's a republican thing. If someone needs to be held accountable to prove that they mean what they say then it should be done. Going from "You can't prosecute a sitting president" to "Why prosecute him, he's not the president anymore" sets an absolutely terrible precedent. We are just saying out loud a president can do whatever they want, then once they are done doing it, it no longer matters anyway?
Just like many times a loophole is found, exploited for themselves, then right before an election they close those loopholes. One of those being how many Executive Orders were signed to have things passed short-term instead of going through the Senate for a bill/law and why Biden will be allowed to make the same kind of orders or undo because they are specific to the Executive branch.

Turning a blind eye IS a issue on both sides.. There are many examples of this. What people should have learned from the Trump presidency is the current state of politics is a complete and utter joke. People can sit back and bash both sides falling into the trap like they want you to, but really what the public should be doing is pushing for reform.

EO's have been used since the beginning of time and by both parties, this isn't something that Trump started exploiting after years of inactivity.

DBRider251 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:58 am2-0

Are you actually happy about this vote? Basically the republicans were forced to vote against a conviction which has 58% support in polls. The democrats are going to murder them with ads showing capitol police getting assaulted followed by senator X voted to acquit.

I'm amazed at how republicans cheer on Trump as he completely destroys their party.

Pumaxcs wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:34 pm Turning a blind eye to any wrongdoing is not a political thing, it's a republican thing. If someone needs to be held accountable to prove that they mean what they say then it should be done. Going from "You can't prosecute a sitting president" to "Why prosecute him, he's not the president anymore" sets an absolutely terrible precedent. We are just saying out loud a president can do whatever they want, then once they are done doing it, it no longer matters anyway? Just like many times a loophole is found, exploited for themselves, then right before an election they close those loopholes. One of those being how many Executive Orders were signed to have things passed short-term instead of going through the Senate for a bill/law and why Biden will be allowed to make the same kind of orders or undo because they are specific to the Executive branch.

Back in the Clinton years it was the opposite. Clinton would lie and the MSM would run stories on how healthy it is to tell lies and how we need to moveon(.org). I started listening to Rush Limbaugh back then and he was really great at catching all of Clinton's lies. He wasn't as good during the Bush/Obama years but I still listened often enough. Then Trump came along and he suddenly started saying how great Trump's lies are. Republican media was even using the "move on" line during the impeachment. It's all the same but everyone just switched sides. (OK Trump is worse, but the point stands.)

jlv wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:52 am

DBRider251 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:58 am2-0

Are you actually happy about this vote? Basically the republicans were forced to vote against a conviction which has

I'm indifferent really. I don't think there should have even been a trial. I just don't think he caused the insurrection. That's been being caused by Washington for years. No one likes the politicians in there now.

I mainly only posted it to stir the pot with Havoc. Seeing his radlib brain melt when Trump is mentioned is humorous to me.

Pumaxcs wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:34 pm Turning a blind eye to any wrongdoing is not a political thing, it's a republican thing. If someone needs to be held accountable to prove that they mean what they say then it should be done. Going from "You can't prosecute a sitting president" to "Why prosecute him, he's not the president anymore" sets an absolutely terrible precedent. We are just saying out loud a president can do whatever they want, then once they are done doing it, it no longer matters anyway? Just like many times a loophole is found, exploited for themselves, then right before an election they close those loopholes. One of those being how many Executive Orders were signed to have things passed short-term instead of going through the Senate for a bill/law and why Biden will be allowed to make the same kind of orders or undo because they are specific to the Executive branch.

Back in the Clinton years it was the opposite. Clinton would lie and the MSM would run stories on how healthy it is to tell lies and how we need to moveon(.org). I started listening to Rush Limbaugh back then and he was really great at catching all of Clinton's lies. He wasn't as good during the Bush/Obama years but I still listened often enough. Then Trump came along and he suddenly started saying how great Trump's lies are. Republican media was even using the "move on" line during the impeachment. It's all the same but everyone just switched sides. (OK Trump is worse, but the point stands.)
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Admittedly, I was in middle school during those elections. These are the first ones I could really pay attention to but I'm mostly aware of the side flipping issues and not trying to say its a new thing. I just only have examples I can point to from recently because of when I started paying attention. Also, admittedly I thought I'd vote Republican in 2016 but ended up voting Independent because after watching debates I could not bring myself to vote for either one of them.

DBRider251 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:18 am

jlv wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:52 am

DBRider251 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:58 am2-0

Are you actually happy about this vote? Basically the republicans were forced to vote against a conviction which has

I'm indifferent really. I don't think there should have even been a trial. I just don't think he caused the insurrection. That's been being caused by Washington for years. No one likes the politicians in there now.

I mainly only posted it to stir the pot with Havoc. Seeing his radlib brain melt when Trump is mentioned is humorous to me.

If no one liked the politicians in there then why was the riot held after the election? They had a perfect opportunity to share their displeasure then or plenty of time in the 2-4 year span previous to it.

Pumaxcs wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:08 am If no one liked the politicians in there then why was the riot held after the election? They had a perfect opportunity to share their displeasure then or plenty of time in the 2-4 year span previous to it.

Most of the people I have consistent conversations with agree there are at max 20 politicians in Congress that are decent and fight constitutionally, as they are supposed to.

We’ll never get past the shit we’re in now until our voting system is changed though. People are too scared to vote against the norms because of the A v B bs.

Oh ya. Sorry. I forgot that you were a radical Democrat.

jlv wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:52 am

DBRider251 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:58 am2-0

Are you actually happy about this vote? Basically the republicans were forced to vote against a conviction which has 58% support in polls. The democrats are going to murder them with ads showing capitol police getting assaulted followed by senator X voted to acquit.

I'm amazed at how republicans cheer on Trump as he completely destroys their party.

This seems ethically wrong no?

I'll be the one to say, yes, the outcome of the impeachment trial is not only the right one but I am satisfied with it. Not because of who it is or the party it is against, but because it was a sham.

The evidence brought forth for the charges the were made was not only insufficient, it lacked moral and factual integrity much like the first impeachment attempt. At least the democrats get their chance to be heard... no matter how politically motivated and ridiculous it was.

Man, I mention Rush and he immediately dies. He really was great in the Clinton years. I wish I didn't have to see him fail the Trump test.

m121c wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:21 pm This seems ethically wrong no?

I'll be the one to say, yes, the outcome of the impeachment trial is not only the right one but I am satisfied with it. Not because of who it is or the party it is against, but because it was a sham.

The evidence brought forth for the charges the were made was not only insufficient, it lacked moral and factual integrity much like the first impeachment attempt. At least the democrats get their chance to be heard... no matter how politically motivated and ridiculous it was.

He held a rally before the electoral vote count. The crowd left from his rally and attacked the capitol. Afterwards he released a statement complimenting the rioters. This isn't a criminal trial. There are no reasonable doubt standards to clear. It's a vote on "is this acceptable?" If you think telling lies that if true, the only reasonable course of action would be revolution, is acceptable I don't know what to say.

I've gone from voting Republican basically always, to voting for libertarian potheads instead of Trump but Republican on the rest of the ticket, to now realizing that Republicans are a legitimate danger to democracy and I have to actually vote Democrat if it's close. This is despite disagreeing with Democrats on pretty much everything except for actually honoring election results. From the polls, it sounds like only 10-20% of Republican voters agree with me. That's a pitifully small amount but without them you're looking at a party that's going to be lucky to get 40% in a general election thanks to Trump, and you still support this guy. It's unbelievable!

He's like a football coach that loses every game but people love him because of his press conferences.

jlv wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:00 am This is despite disagreeing with Democrats on pretty much everything except for actually honoring election results.

Are you being serious with this?

Seems you are in a moral dilemma not policy.. which is weird because morals is not exactly the DNC platform.

So we're all in agreement that ranked choice voting is actually the best solution to the problem?

It's exactly how I find myself voting and couldn't have worded it better. It's no longer a who do I support more but who do I hate less and they are making themselves a very easy target to disagree with.

I also don't see how honoring election results is a moral choice.

Its only moral to

Fat thumbs on smart phone = accidental submission.

No idea where I was going but I’ll say this: There is a lot of irony in stating the democrats are the party that safe guards democracy and honors elections while republicans are an emerging party threatening that.

The past is precedent. Ignore it at your own peril. Here's the new flag of the Trumpers. Fly it Proudly Boys.

Jesus fucking Christ Havoc. No wonder we can't have unity in this country. You clearly don't fucking want it.