Re: Political Debate Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:31 am
With omicron variant coming, the more you wait, the worse it gets.
There is no factual evidence to show Omicron is anything more than mild. You are doing nothing more but buying into the sensationalism. We are so worried about it, Biden has stopped travel from several African countries but not the European ones where it is present. Talk about a racist xenophobic fascist!TeamHavocRacing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:31 am With omicron variant coming, the more you wait, the worse it gets.
American holiday.
If everyone had this mindset you wouldn't have a handheld supercomputer or uncovered quantum physics. My question is, has every expert drawn their conclusion (and as the story goes... they are in favor)? Or is it just the ones in a position for you to hear their conclusion? The local hospitals (where I grew up anyway) who had to layoff numerous doctors, surgeons, and medical staff must not have had the right educated experts. We are arguing 2 things at once here, we are talking about government power/policy, and we are talking about the vaccine itself. You can both be pro-vax and anti-mandate. Saying you have to be an expert in anything to be qualified enough to have a voice is the equivalent to saying you don't have a voice because the of your skin tone or genitalia.Boblob801 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:40 am It's very broad. Some would draw a conclusion a lot sooner than others. It would seem the vast majority of people who specialize in this field have drawn their conclusion. Which would state it isn't experimental. The same can be said with the current scale it's being "experimented" on. Where would you draw the conclusion? As it stands you should be able to give me a date given that most of the world's population is undertaking this experiment.
There are a lot of individual thoughts in this chunk. Im going to just sum up my answer and say that this is what freedom is. There are a ton of things people do that are not in their best interest, many of which can ruin lives. Unfortunately, and fortunately, that is freedom. As a big of an advocate I am for personal well being (and a majority of Americans are not), it should absolutely not be the governments business. Murder is a different, that is not nannying society, that is setting the line of what is your right and what is not your right, then setting punishments for that. It is not a persons right to take the life of another. Government nanny is telling you what you can eat, where you can go, how you should think, what can be taught, what can be said, etc. We most definitely don't get it right every time, and there is most definitely some nanny-ing here in the U.S. However, I am in favor for less of a nanny state not more. Implementing more nanny laws needs to be carefully evaluated and must meet extraordinary circumstances.Boblob801 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:40 am The point of govt is to provide socialist services (police, fire, schooling, roads, parks etc) and nanny society (if society says, we don't like murder and theft, govt has to stop it etc). The only way I could agree with you is if it was put to vote and the majority vote on, no mandate. At the end of the day, the average person isn't smart enough to do what's right for them. America is the perfect example, being obese isn't good for you, yet there you (USA) are, breaking records. There are also situations where the majority of you would vote against something even though in reality, it is in your best interest. A good example is, I'm sure most people would vote on a tax decrease, it would be bad. I mean last I checked, meth was illegal, should that not be a personal choice? I don't think so myself. There are lines, they haven't crossed it here.
Zantac. Ibuprofen. It's not about the physical presence of the drug itself being in your system, it's the resultant of that drug being in your system. Idk if you were civil engineering in school, but if you were, you maybe don't have experience just how delicate complex systems are. If you do have some study involving complex system analysis, them I am sure you are aware of this.Boblob801 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:40 am I don't choose to take a shit, if it was up to me, I'd never eat. It's such a pain having to provide sustenance. It's just inefficient.
You don't need to take back the injection, it'll be gone after a while (hence the need for boosters)(I want to note, I'm not necessarily on board with getting yearly boosters). Can you humor me? What drugs have delayed effects of more than a few years?
I don't really get why it has to be everyone, why do you want it to be everyone? What is your ideal outcome to that? Do you think it will stop C19 in it's tracks? I'm trying to understand as to why you think everyone should, or needs, to have a single round of vaccination.Boblob801 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:40 am I don't really disagree, as bad as it sounds. These people are overheads in my country. The vast majority of people dying of the virus need govt aid to survive. But at the end of the day, there are 2 ways to value human life, the engineer way (this person will contribute x value to society. If they die, it'll cost x amount to scoop them up etc. I think in nz the value is around 4million or something). And the other way, this persons a human they should have the right to live or something. Completely opinion-based, so I'm not going to get into it. Honestly, I would be fine with everyone getting a vaccine and then letting covid run rampant (I think that's what NZ is transitioning into).
Many arguments might be the same (although I would not agree it is all), but the situation is different. I would have the same argument about mandates if it were the flu shot. Just because the argument is similar to others in history, doesn't make it anymore wrong or right.Boblob801 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:40 am I don't think there is a difference. Every time a vaccine comes out it's the same shit. "I'm not against vaccines, just this one". "Look at all the adverse reactions". "Even doctors are against it". Honestly, it's always the same shit, I'm yet to hear something new. Same shit, different vaccine.
I meant more individualism in a persons autonomy, thinking, and from a government perspective. It is not to say I believe in individualism as a blanket concept.Boblob801 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:40 am I'm unsure what type of engineer you are but I'll tell you this now, remove the idea of individualism. It's stupid, it's what people use to make you feel special. When you come to design or manage things for stakeholders you'll quickly find you need to group them. No way you'll please everyone, don't get caught up in the detail. No one else does. How many times have you been to a store and it's laid out to suit your individual needs? It's not, they have a target group and they meet the common denominator. Save yourself some stress and get on board.
I put intellectual in quotes, because there is most definitely folks with extensive education that are still vulnerable to dangerous ideas that I would not characteristic as "intellectuals". That is just my personal feelings though. An intellectual is one which can decouple many of the human factors that tie in to cognitive processes; you can still have someone with years of higher level education that can go along with the crowd brainlessly. If anything, C19 has proven this multiple times over. Not sure what stats could be pulled to make this bullshit. Are you saying in no way can an educated person be vulnerable to mob rule or dangerous ideas? Just turn on American corporate news for a night.Boblob801 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:40 amNot a chance, I could pull stats that show this to be bullshit but it's like saying gravity isn't real, it'd be a waste of time to argue it.There are a ton of college educated "intellectuals" that are just as vulnerable to dangerous ideas as those who are not. We could have a whole conversation of what make up an intellectual really.
If they can't do primary school mathematics, I don't count them as intellectuals (aka the majority of anti-covid vax I've talked to). Seriously, who can't figure out that 2+2x10 doesn't equal 40.
If being assimilated into society is brainlessly getting in line for what the government tells me, Im okay being on the edge. It is your opinion that my choice is being fucked no matter what, that is not based in fact. This virus is not a certain "fucked" ending for a great number of people, especially those who would fit in a general healthy profile. Add to the equation that we now have therapeutics to help speed up the natural fight of the virus while minimizing the severity of symptoms. Does any part of you think there is more to this, such as money? Power? When a mandate ignores natural immunity, we are no longer in the relm of reason, it is in the relm of agenda.Boblob801 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:40 am That's my point. When you do risk assessment it's simple, you don't pick the option where you're fucked no matter what. You pick the one with the best chances. And that's putting on your wool coat, getting your vaccine, and coming next to me to eat grass and baa. (I joke) But seriously, you have almost nothing to lose, there's a 1 in multiple million chance something bad will happen vs not getting it and being a reject of society.
Who gets to decide what is right and what isn't? The government is qualified for that decision? Just because a majority want something that makes it okay? I would speculate to say a majority of people would want many things that they have no understanding of how it would effect them on the back end. If we were actually transparent about those things and people could understand them then you might have a little more of argument. However, you seem to have little trust in individuals to know their left from their right hand... so it is weird you trust the majority.
It absolutely matters.
Although I welcome you to comment on everything I posted above, I get we are getting in a pretty deep depth of conversation. If you were to comment on anything let it be this; I want to investigate this thinking.
The vast majority have drawn that conclusion. Obviously not everyone, that's likely impossible. Note we're talking experimental.
No, what I think is, the virus kills (mostly) old people, old people make (most of) the rules and have (most of) the money, therefore old people are doing what's in (mostly) their best interest. I don't think it's to gain money or power. They already have it, hence why they can do this.Does any part of you think there is more to this, such as money? Power?
I agree with you on the travel ban. Same thing with Trump's China travel ban. Basically your options are full quarantine for anyone entering the country from anywhere or don't bother. Any partial ban/quarantine is the same as don't bother.m121c wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:42 pm There is no factual evidence to show Omicron is anything more than mild. You are doing nothing more but buying into the sensationalism. We are so worried about it, Biden has stopped travel from several African countries but not the European ones where it is present. Talk about a racist xenophobic fascist!
See: https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/policies/law/st ... osure.html
You stop right there at socialist.
I got a pirated copy I can’t update
NZ is giving out free copies, no questions asked. (There's a 1/5,000,000 chance they'll jab you with a used needle though ).
Hopefully they made some improvements. The first release was pretty shit.
Of course they won’t ask questions... we should though. Especially in cases where the power wrap their hands around our wellness, our freedoms, and our lively hoods without transparency.Boblob801 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:18 pmNZ is giving out free copies, no questions asked. (There's a 1/5,000,000 chance they'll jab you with a used needle though ).
Our 5g towers aren't all up yet, so ours isn't going live for the whole country for a little while yet.