Isle of Man TT Discussion

I've heard conversation coming out of animal pens that is more intelligent than what is going on in here.
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Re: Isle of Man TT Discussion

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Gnarliest dudes in motosports race this event, RIP Mark Purslow
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Re: Isle of Man TT Discussion

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All of yesterday went off without a single incident. That's a good thing. Peter Hickman already topping 133mph avg. Saving some for race day. Davey Todd is the man of the meet so far improving greatly and having what seems like the most fun as well. Hoping for good weather today before the first race day tomorrow.
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Re: Isle of Man TT Discussion

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Friday's practices went off without incident after rain delay but stunted their ability to push due to damp patches. Peter Hickman topped the time tables.

Today the 1st race was the superbikes and went off on time without incident but was marked by high attrition with 9 or 10 bikes retiring. Peter Hickman 1st Dean Harrison 2nd and Michael Dunlop 3rd.

Unfortunately the sidecar's 1st race of the event didn't even get half a lap before it was red flagged...

The 2022 Isle of Man TT has been marred by a second death this week after Sidecar racer and newcomer Olivier Lavorel was killed in an accident on Saturday.

By:Lewis Duncan
Jun 4, 2022, 2:17


The three-lap Sidecar race was red-flagged just moments after it got underway due to a serious incident at Ago’s Leap one mile into the course. 

It is thought one outfit crashed and a following Sidecar was caught unsighted as it began its lap and hit the stricken machine, causing a major fire incident.

As a result, the race was stopped and subsequently cancelled for the evening as the incident was attended to by emergency responders. 

Tragically, TT organisers have confirmed that French Sidecar passenger Lavorel was killed in the incident, while the driver of the Shock Factory outfit – Cesar Chanel – was airlifted to Aintree Hospital in a critical condition. 

A statement from TT organisers read: “The Isle of Man TT Races regrets to confirm that Olivier Lavorel, 35, from Sillingy, France was killed in an incident during the first Sidecar race of the 2022 Isle of Man TT Races. 

“The accident occurred at Ago’s Leap, just under one mile into the course, on the opening lap of the race. Olivier was competing in his first TT as a passenger to Cesar Chanel. 

“Cesar was taken to Noble’s Hospital by road and airlifted to Aintree Hospital in a critical condition. 

“Olivier and Cesar were both newcomers at the Isle of Man TT Races and had been elevated from start number 39 to start number 21 after qualifying as the 15th fastest pairing, having posted an impressive lap speed of 108.420mph. 

“An experienced pairing, Olivier and Cesar had taken numerous victories and podiums in the French F1 and F2 National Sidecar Championships.“

R.I.P Olivier.

Tomorrow is has no racing as it is Mad Sunday, where the public is allowed to ride their motorcycles on the course in certain closed sections.

Monday resumes the racing schedule through Friday. Fingers crossed, prayers, et cetera.
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Re: Isle of Man TT Discussion

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Just wondering, are the deaths biased towards the slower riders? Maybe they should have qualifying on a safe closed course and only let the top 25% ride the actual death race.
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Re: Isle of Man TT Discussion

Post by ddmx »

Exhilarating to watch but agree, there seems to be an apparent disregard for the safety of the racers. Whether quality of the course, safety barriers, even track crew and event organization. I can see the opposing arguments too. The racers know it’s dangerous. Of course they are not intending to get seriously injured but they’re knowingly participating in an event with a track record of absurdly high death ratios.
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Re: Isle of Man TT Discussion

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jlv wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:35 am Just wondering, are the deaths biased towards the slower riders? Maybe they should have qualifying on a safe closed course and only let the top 25% ride the actual death race.
The fatality rate is definitely biased toward the less experienced, but like space flight, the more you do it the better your odds are of an incident. The current best is John McGuinness with 23 TT wins at 50 years old. He has over 50,000 racing miles there. Thats over 1300 laps! Guy Martin survived two separate high speed crashes there. It all depends on where you step off. There is a traditional path towards competing at the TT. You can't just sign up for the Senior TT. You must be an established road racer from BSB or WSB or another major competitive roadbike series, plus you have to race the Manx Grand Prix with other newcomers for usually three years before they allow you to go to the big stage of the TT. There's also a robust newcomer orientation program with active and retired TT racers taking vanfuls of noobs around the Snaefell Mountain Course to explain the ins and outs of racing a 37.75 mile lap on the public roads. I use racing loosely as they actually race the clock, released one at a time in ten second intervals with Superbike, Supersport, Superstock, Supertwins and Sidecars all running separate races. The rest of the real roads racing series in Northern Ireland have mass starts in two waves usually. There's one in mainland England called The Scarborough Gold Cup. Pack racing on public roads! Rural traditions often are at odds with urban ones especially if it's deadly activity. Kinda like the Southern Baptist snake charming. Here's an example of how tight and scary that type of real roads racing is...

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Re: Isle of Man TT Discussion

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I forgot to mention the recent background drama of Dunlop and their defective slicks and treaded racing tires delaminating at speed! Michael Dunlop(no relation) had a hauntingly, familiar incident when he managed to handle it when his rear tire let go in a high-speed right-hand bend(his brother William died when oil blew on his rear tire in a similar bend), then a front tire chunked a piece away on another bike at the Northwest 200. In Saturday's Superbike TT race, Davey Todd survived a high-speed delamination of his treaded rear Dunlop. Time to switch to Metzeler!


Davey Todds treaded rear Dunlop...
Image
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Re: Isle of Man TT Discussion

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Michael Dunlop has achieved his 20th TT win in Supersport yesterday and Peter Hickman was dominant in his 7th TT win in Superstock.

It's another bad TT this time around. I didn't have the energy to put this together last night. I knew of Davy which makes it harder. Engine failure at high speed, unfortunately a common problem that also took William Dunlop from us. We're not being spared...

Northern Irish rider Davy Morgan has become the third motorcyclist to die in a crash during this year's Isle of Man TT.

Event organizers confirmed the 52-year-old's death on Monday after "an incident on the final lap of the first Supersport Race."

"We extend our deepest sympathy to Davy's partner Trudy, his family, loved ones, and friends," a statement read.

"Davy was a stalwart of the TT paddock, with 2022 marking 20 years since he first competed in the Isle of Man TT Races. Today's Supersport Race was his 80th TT race start."

Every year, the Isle of Man is transformed into a motorcycle bonanza which was first held in 1907.

The event, which includes a number of races around the island in the Irish Sea, returned in 2022 after a two-year hiatus during the Covid-19 pandemic.

Organizers said Morgan had recently contemplated leaving the sport but decided to return after missing it during the pandemic.

He is now the third rider to be killed at this year's event following the death of 29-year-old Mark Purslow and 35-year-old Olivier Lavorel last week.

Lavorel had been riding in a sidecar with his partner César Chanel who was airlifted to hospital in a critical condition after crashing on the opening lap of the Sidecar Race


R.I.P. Davy Morgan. I really am torn and struggle to balance the joy for the lads getting their glory and the sadness of losing them.

Today is an off day with the UK's Red Arrows aerobatic team performing for the TT crowd. Racing resumes Wednesday.
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Re: Isle of Man TT Discussion

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Weather played a role in yesterday's racing as only the Supertwins got their race in, though it was shortened by a lap to three with the required pitstop after one lap. Peter Hickman and Michael Dunlop electrified the island with an absolutely stunning back-and-forth sector by sector battle for first that never got more than a total gap of 1 second and usually hovered under .1 seconds! Unfortunately, Dunlop slowed and stopped for adjustments only to be black flagged giving Hickman his 7th TT win, 3rd of the week and now on his way to tie Ian Hutchinson for 5 wins on the week. Paul Jordan got his first podium with third and Lee Johnston took second. The Supersport race was rescheduled for today.
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Re: Isle of Man TT Discussion

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I've gained a huge amount of understanding and perspective listening to the words of the only surviving Dunlop, Michael. This book was written a year before his big brother William was killed at the 2018 Skerries race. I can tell his attitude has changed none. He's head down, looking to beat Uncle Joey's 26 TT wins record. Today's Senior TT will tell if he gets one closer with 21. Here's his Audible book. It's free with the trial period...

https://www.audible.com/pd/Road-Racer-A ... lsrc=aw.ds
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Re: Isle of Man TT Discussion

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Here's a clip of Paul Jordan hitting a bird at speed, losing his face shield and getting both of his eyes blackened! He stayed on somehow and later placed third in the Supertwins with two shiners! That's a man, that is.

https://youtu.be/cj-nBEIbEvU?t=117
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Re: Isle of Man TT Discussion

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Here we are at the end of the 2022 TT fortnight.

Friday saw the crammed schedule tossed into disarray. The incident-free final Supersport race was shortened to a 2 lap sprint where Michael Dunlop managed to battle back against a hard charging Peter Hickman followed by Dean Harrison for his 21st TT win, putting Dunlop into the rarified air of the 20-something wins club, joining John McGuinness with 23 and his uncle Joey Dunlop with the record 26 TT wins.

Then, the final sidecar event got under way and on lap 1 another fatal incident occurred at Ago's leap taking the lives of a father and son duo...

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Father-and-son Sidecar crew Roger and Bradley Stockton have tragically died following a crash at the Isle of Man TT on Friday, taking the total fatalities in 2022 to five.


Lewis Duncan
Jun 10, 2022, 10:44 AM

The second Sidecar race of the 2022 TT got underway at 2:30pm on Friday, which was meant to be the curtain closer day of the event, but was red-flagged at the start of the second lap.

The incident took place at the Ago’s Leap section just one mile into the course, where Sidecar driver Cesar Chanal lost his life in an incident last Saturday in the first Sidecar race.

TT organisers have now confirmed that Roger, 56, and Bradley Stockton, 21, from Crewe were killed in Friday’s crash.

Roger Stockton was making his 20th TT start, while his son was a newcomer at the event, scoring eighth on his debut in Monday’s rescheduled first Sidecar race.

A statement read: “With a deep sense of sorrow, the Isle of Man TT Races can confirm that Roger Stockton, 56, and Bradley Stockton, 21, from Crewe, Cheshire were both killed in an incident on the second and final lap of the second Sidecar Race of the 2022 Isle of Man TT Races.

“The incident occurred at Ago’s Leap, just under one mile into the lap.

“Roger and Bradley were father and son, and driver and passenger respectively.

“Roger was an experienced TT competitor, with today’s race marking his 20th TT race start.

“He competed at the TT regularly from 2000 to 2008, before then returning in 2010, 2017 and at this year’s event. In his career, he claimed a total of twelve top-20 finishes and four top-10 finishes, as well as 10 Bronze Replicas.

“Bradley was a newcomer to the TT and finished his first TT race on Monday, securing an impressive 8th-place finish alongside his father.

“2022 was their fifth season racing together, and Roger and Bradley were regular podium finishers and frontrunners in the British F2 Sidecar Cup Championship, finishing second in the championship in 2021.

“The Isle of Man TT Races pass on their deepest sympathy to Roger and Bradley’s families, loved ones, and friends.”

The Stocktons and Chanal have accounted for three of the five deaths that have marred the TT’s return since the COVID-19 pandemic, with solo racers Mark Purslow and Davy Morgan dying in separate accidents in practice week and in the first Supersport race on Monday.

It is the first time since 1989 that five competitors have died at the event.

Chanal’s passenger Olivier Lavorel is still in a critical condition in hospital in Liverpool following Saturday’s accident, with the identity of the pair mistaken and the latter initially announced as having died.

Friday was supposed to mark the end of the 2022 Isle of Man TT with the grand finale Senior TT race, but this had to be cancelled due to weather as organisers evaluate whether it can now run on Saturday.

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Saturday, Peter Hickman won the rain delayed Senior TT after Friday was rained out, putting on a 6-lap clinic on how to create and manage a gap over a near 200 mile road race. Dean Harrison and Connor Cummins followed in 2nd and 3rd.

Peter Hickman continues his streak of dominance in the major roadracing events, just picking right up where he left off before covid.
Davey Todd emerged as the rising star hero as well as Jamie Coward with their super consistent racing results above their expectations and "newcomer" Glenn Irwin dove right in like he'd been at it all along at the Mountain course. The field deepens.

Needless to say, this was a very grim TT. Coming back after three years may have played a role, but we still know that it's basically a pact among that community that the the racing continue even after horrific fatalities. To think that this was on the Grand Prix calendar until 1976 should give testament to how far we actually have come in adjustments to the running of it and obviously have more to go in regards to many things.
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Re: Isle of Man TT Discussion

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One little tidbit of telemetry data taken from Peter Hickman's superbike data logger in the 2019 Senior:
"Hickman's front wheel travelled 2 miles less than the rear wheel on one of his TT laps, and the rear wheel a mile more than the total distance due to the wheel spinning up."
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Re: Isle of Man TT Discussion

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jlv wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:54 am...If every year they had some new barrier set up where the last deadly accident happened, at least it'd look like they were trying even if it didn't work. But the promoter doesn't care as long as they have cannon fodder willing to die to put on a show. A good promoter cares about the safety of their racers.
It's a real conflict to continue following this sport I love so much...

ISLE OF MAN TT BOSS: RACE HAS TO ‘KEEP CHANGING’ TO SURVIVE
Jun 15 2022
By Simon Patterson


Isle of Man TT boss Paul Phillips says that the event has to continue to change if it wants to survive, following the conclusion of a particularly painful 2022 edition in which five competitors lost their lives.

That was the worst figure since 1989 even after the event relaunched following a three-year absence with a whole new onus on safety and risk management.

Speaking exclusively to The Race only hours after Peter Hickman’s Senior TT win concluded the two-week long festival, Phillips admits that he and his team cannot be happy about any of their hard work given the huge human cost of this year’s event.

That is despite their considerable efforts, as part of the Isle of Man government’s department of infrastructure, over the past year to revolutionise the race.

“It can’t be described as a good TT when we had so many serious incidents,” Phillips, a Manx native, explains.
“In overall terms, we didn’t have many incidents compared to normal, but the ones that we did have were serious. They were incidents that were uncontrollable, and there was nothing in those incidents that, at this stage, going into this year’s event with all the things we’ve done to manage avoidable risk, wasn’t part of the inherent risk of the TT."

“That’s difficult. We need to take some time to reflect on that and see what else we can do, so that we don’t just accept that inherent risk can’t be disrupted as well, can’t be made better. That’s the overriding feeling at the end of this TT. Almost all the things that were within our control – given that we were doing so much new and with so much ambition – I would guess at this point of time, so close to the finish of the event, that we did most of that and did it well or very well. We delivered what we set out to deliver. But that’s overshadowed by these uncontrollable things. I think that no matter what happens next, we just did the TT with the most amount of change possible ever, and it’s hard to imagine that there isn’t a whole load more change to come in time for the next TT.”

Bringing in not just new safety features, but a root and branch revision of the whole event’s approach to safety and risk for this year, means that the five deaths have taken a particularly hard toll, personally and professionally, on Phillips and his team.

But, while it might not look to have been a safe TT – and statistically was in fact one of the worst ever – that’s more to do with the inherent risk of the event and less of a reflection upon the new strategies being used by the organiser.

“It’s going to be really difficult for anyone reading this to understand it when I say, ‘yes’,” Phillips says when asked if he was happy with the changes made. “But I do believe that is the case. We’re on a rebooted journey for risk management at the TT, and we did a huge amount that’s had a big impact."

“Gareth Davies, the TT’s chief medical officer, was talking about that, talking about the incidents he’s been to.

“And then there’s near misses, and what happens with them – what outcome you get, a good one or a bad one.

“All the things we’ve done this year, all the things we’ve brought to the TT, have all worked and provided a benefit, and will continue to do so in the future.

“There’ll probably be occasions where we can look to some of them and say, ‘Blimey, that actually made a difference to that specific one’.

“But we’ve got to do more and more and more. I’m convinced at the moment that we’ve got the support to do it.”

That support doesn’t extend to all corners though, with considerable opposition remaining to Phillips’s changes from the more conservative fans and stakeholders in the event.

Phillips is aware of that but says it must be managed as his team continues to press forward in making the event if not completely safe then at least safer.

“This is something I said in a conversation earlier to [British Superbike boss] Stuart Higgs of all people,” he says.

“The important thing is that the tradition of the TT is its biggest asset and its greatest threat. The tradition and the history is what makes it what it is, but you can’t use tradition as a reason not to change things as the world changes around you.

“We always come up against resistance because of tradition, and that’s not to say that as an organisation we’re dismissive or ignorant of our history.

“But to survive and be relevant and to make sure that the thing can go on into the future, it has to keep changing.”

What exactly those changes will be, Phillips is not sure yet, but the TT has already announced a systemic investigation into all this year’s serious incidents.

Phillips is keen to start the process of diagnosing what went well and what didn’t as soon as possible, and says that a clearer picture will emerge in the coming weeks of what the next steps in the TT’s evolution will look like.

“It’s too early,” he says. “I haven’t had any time to reflect on stuff the way I’d like to other than on the drive home at night time, because it’s virtually the only time in this fortnight I have.

“For weeks, we’ve been working to really deliver this. I’ve got some views on a number of things, but that isn’t really for me to lead on.

“It’s for me to maybe contribute to, but I know we have some really good, passionate people who want to ensure the future of the TT but also to make it better in every way imaginable.

“I’ve had it made quite clear to me that that is where the Isle of Man government is more generally, too. And they’re very committed to improving TT in all areas, especially in regards to safety and risk management.

“We have to build a more resilient organisation. We’ve got a lot [of responsibility] on a few [people] at times, and we have to appreciate the scale of the event. We’ve got to not be ashamed of how big it is, or shy away from that.

“We need to think about how we would deliver it if we were starting from scratch, and use that instead of normalising how we have been doing it.

“That will be conversations to have over the next few weeks. We need to embrace the idea of hot debriefing, warm debriefing and cold debriefing.

“We need to not wait for ages and ages – we need to be having those conversations this month. We need to start talking early about the further changes we want to make.”
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Re: Isle of Man TT Discussion

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Just found this...

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