When should jlv release 450's?

[yzmxer608]

Heck, I just did a test. They pretty much take the same distance to brake to a stop when going at the same speed. You're obviously going faster than you think you are going

how you know you do it at same speed?do you have speedometr?

Guessing played against a demo.

[blackbeard]

To the guy with the arm wrenching top fuel cr250 go on pavement and tell me it will loop over in 5th, I'll give you 100bucks if it even does it in 4th. I raced pro irl and ridden my whole life. 250's feel fast to the average person due to there torque curve. There's no such thing as a powervalve kick as referenced earlier. If you read up on engine technology these engines use a resonance frequency in the exhaust when reached acts like a vacuum sucking extra fuel and air thus creating a "kick". I thought jlv said these were based off the kx250 geometry which had a horrible front end feel from the factory. And I couldn't agree more jlv, shift sooner! Try riding supercross andshift when the rpms are low, the bike carries you much faster shifting down low you'd be supervised. I had that issue in game not making sections then I starting watching the tach and shifting according to real life numbers and my problem was solved, the game sounds make it seem like your no where near the top of the curve.

[HESH838]

To the guy with the arm wrenching top fuel cr250 go on pavement and tell me it will loop over in 5th, I'll give you 100bucks if it even does it in 4th. I raced pro irl and ridden my whole life. 250's feel fast to the average person due to there torque curve. There's no such thing as a powervalve kick as referenced earlier. If you read up on engine technology these engines use a resonance frequency in the exhaust when reached acts like a vacuum sucking extra fuel and air thus creating a "kick". I thought jlv said these were based off the kx250 geometry which had a horrible front end feel from the factory. And I couldn't agree more jlv, shift sooner! Try riding supercross andshift when the rpms are low, the bike carries you much faster shifting down low you'd be supervised. I had that issue in game not making sections then I starting watching the tach and shifting according to real life numbers and my problem was solved, the game sounds make it seem like your no where near the top of the curve.

top fuel cr250, now that is a good idea!
funny thing is, i dont ride tracks, im not a racer, i just have fun on my bikes and enjoy freeriding, thats why i road registered the bike pretty much as soon as i got it so i can ride pavement to get to anywere i want to as there is 100's of miles of fields, lanes and hills where i live! so the bike spends most of its time on the pavement on the way to the lanes etc! and i found it incredibly easy to pop the front wheel up in any gear using THE CORRECT TECHNIQUE! when i pop a wheelie i mainly use 4th or 5th gear anyway when im on the pavement to do long distance wheelies as its pointless popping it up in 1st 2nd or 3rd and having to shift all the way through the box when your on the back wheel! im not trying to argue or whatever but i would seriously question your 'pro' racer credentials if you cant lift the front end of your bike in a high gear!

why did you say there is no such thing as a powervalve kick, then follow it up by explaining exactly how a powervalve creates a 'kick'? i thought there wasn't a powervalve kick?... anyway i i've been a full time motorcycle mechanic for 8 years now and worked on many 2stroke engines with various different "powervalve sytems" i dont need to read up on them thanks!

anyway to dumb it all down a shade, i simply stated that the 250 2strokes feel underpowered to me on this game and that i cant ride them in a similar way that i would ride my bike in real life due to this!

thanks to jlv for making the 250 smokers though they are still by far my bike of choice on this game they are still soooo much fun to ride on here! i am much, much faster on the 450's though, and i think its down to the engines charecteristics and all that extra grunt the 450's on this game can wheelie in 5th gear ridiculously easy, even from almost standing still at like 2mph

[jlv]

The expansion chamber creates the 'kick'. The power valve smooths it out by lowering the exhaust port at lower RPM.

There's a good dyno chart here that shows the effect of a power valve on an rm125. That dip around 7,000 follow by the surge at 8,000 is the kick you're feeling.

[DJ99X]

Maybe they will be happy if you put in that dip?

[jlv]

Most of them are screaming it at 10,000 RPM, so a stuck power valve wouldn't be something they'd notice.

[HESH838]

Most of them are screaming it at 10,000 RPM, so a stuck power valve wouldn't be something they'd notice.

thing is, (irl) im not really talking too much about ''kicks'', im mainly talking about how the engines characteristics will change in the higher rpm's when the exhaust flap valve begins to open (powervalve) helping the engine to produce its peak horsepower at around 8,000 rpm - 10,000 rpm, and as an example if i was in 3rd approaching a huge steep hill out in the lanes or wherever it might be (irl).. say i wanted to hit that hill in 3rd gear screaming the living sh*t out of the bike it will still be pulling much more than it would be if i was to 'shift up earlier' on a steep ass hill, the bike will still be pulling pretty hard at a couple hundred rpm's below its maximum rpm even on the flat!
it still has a huge amount of power at its peak rpm, and thats the kind of rpm range i like to use when im riding the hills or whatever out here, i like to use the zappy / snappy area in the engines power output range which is between 8,000 - 10,000 rpm!
i dont like to shift up early or ride in the 'torque', if i wanted to do that then i would just ride a 450.. i try to ride 2 strokes on here in a similar way to how i would in real life and that is in the high rpm's, not exactly "screaming it at 10,000rpm", but the 250's smokers seem to just not pull at all above 7,000 rpm on here!

i feel like i am being rather cheeky asking this but... would it be possible for me to send you a completely un-realistic dyno chart / power curve and have it applied to just a random bike model to see what kind of a difference it would make having different engine characteristics? obviously i know your a very busy man (genius) jlv and i will understand if you dont have time to do that.

[blackbeard]

Thing is Mike 250's start signing off past 8000 rpms so you don't gain anything going past that threshold. Most people think two strokes like to scream and be ridden on the edge but there not designed to spin nearly as fast as a four stroke. A 125 or 250 could only reach the equivelant rpms as a four stroke by down shifting at excess speeds. And I never said a powercalve creates any sort of kick, and to jlv a power valve doesn't have much effect on top end power, true it changes port height in turn adjusting exhaust timing but it's mainly to produce a type of power curve to suit your needs on the broad spectrum. Look at most 80'cc bikes and under hesh, 90% of them don't use any power valve and that's the reason there so brutal, they have one port height and that's it. Lastly my remark about wheelying the bike is aimed at your comment of rolling on the throttle. I have no doubts about wheeling in 5th clutching it or pulling back or any method as such.

[HESH838]

Thing is Mike 250's start signing off past 8000 rpms so you don't gain anything going past that threshold.

i wouldn't say they start signing off after 8,000 rpm.. peak power is between 8,000 rpm and 9,250 rpm.. i'm not saying that you've got to ride the bike at those kinds of rpm all the time but theoretically to get the most out of the engines torque and horsepower, you ideally should be using atleast 7,000, right up to 9,000

[blackbeard]

I definitely agree with you there, I guess the point im trying to get across is in this game 7-9k rpm sounds to the hear more like 5-7k to most people so they leave it in gear when they should be shifting. From personal experience riding the 250 in supercross I had alot easier time when it sounded like I was chugging, the bike surprisingly would get up and over most anything compared to when I was shifting high like I thought I needed too.

[yzmxer608]

So I tried making my forks really stiff, and it helped some of the weird problems I was having, mostly with the front end reacting to stuff (braking not so much, anti-lock kicks in at any angle not 90* to the ground way more aggressive than any other bike still). I'm going to blame all of this on Kawasaki .

My problem with trying to lug the bike is, there's a fine line between the "bogging" sound where the power is, and actually bogging.

[blackbeard]

Yz I hear ya, I only ride the 250's and you really have to learn that right timing, its a whole another aspect that makes them that much more entertaining. I wish jlv would chime in and let me know if the smokers are based off the kx250, if so changing to say a rm250 lay out would be tits

[DJ99X]

I wish jlv would chime in and let me know if the smokers are based off the kx250, if so changing to say a rm250 lay out would be tits

Bringing back the dead here. When you say weight distribution do you just mean how much weight is on either wheel? So does this mean you don't actually use the geometry of these bikes?

Same geometry. The wheels, lower fork, upper fork/clamps/bars, swingarm and frame/motor have correct masses for their class.

Same geometry. The wheels, lower fork, upper fork/clamps/bars, swingarm and frame/motor have correct masses for their class.

Same geometry.

[Ballsfalsky]

To the guy with the arm wrenching top fuel cr250 go on pavement and tell me it will loop over in 5th, I'll give you 100bucks if it even does it in 4th. I raced pro irl and ridden my whole life. 250's feel fast to the average person due to there torque curve. There's no such thing as a powervalve kick as referenced earlier. If you read up on engine technology these engines use a resonance frequency in the exhaust when reached acts like a vacuum sucking extra fuel and air thus creating a "kick". I thought jlv said these were based off the kx250 geometry which had a horrible front end feel from the factory. And I couldn't agree more jlv, shift sooner! Try riding supercross andshift when the rpms are low, the bike carries you much faster shifting down low you'd be supervised. I had that issue in game not making sections then I starting watching the tach and shifting according to real life numbers and my problem was solved, the game sounds make it seem like your no where near the top of the curve.

My stock 07 yz250 pulled the front end coming out of sand corners shifting from 3rd to 4th (WOT using the clutch to shift) and would carry it 4th through 5th... Remember, this was in deep wet sand... Even easier to do so on hard pack.

[yzmxer608]

Same geometry, but if the weight distribution of the KX250 was goofy as, I'm still going to blame it on Kawasaki .