Where has the great community gone...

[TeamHavocRacing]

Mason, just put a donate button in your sig and I'll pay you for all the typistry bro. Bravo. I love the models you used as examples, they perfectly convey my point about ripoffs.

[m121c]

Keep it, go golfing or whatever retired people do now a days.

[StEEZY101]

Keep it, go golfing or whatever retired people do now a days.

Well apparently they play video games now

[checkerz]

See thats the thing. Everyone thinks about their gains now. Not like the old days. They are out for themselves. I used to do small things and release it and it didn't bother me because people enjoyed it and I got to see people using it in multiplayer. If you think you have to make people pay, then go work for Nordic or EA.

Funny, I had one of those jobs. I then brought the talents I was paid for to this community for free for years, released well over 100 tracks for free too. I still enjoy building for myself and my friends and the community...custom stuff though. I don't enjoy replicas anymore, but I feel they are vital to the continued growth of the community. At some point though, it gets tiring building something you don't love, hearing a ton of bitching, and seeing others making money off the community that you are trying so hard to build. Who are the best customers for the new models? The "teams" for the series' that want the latest and greatest. Without the tracks, there isn't a series to run, there aren't teams, and there isn't an audience for those skins. That's okay though, those dudes bust their butts too; clearly guys see value in their work and are willing to pay for it.

So come nationals time myself (and at least some others on the rF staff, maybe not everyone) was pretty spent and just the motivation of growing the community and game wasn't enough anymore. If we were going to keep going, it wouldn't be fair to ourselves to keep being the slaves of the community. Instead, we're child laborers haha. We aren't getting rich, but we're getting enough to justify using our talents to continue the series.

What people are continuing to have a hard time understanding is... without the paid membership, there was no 2016 national series going to happen. With the paid membership, for those who see value, they have a series and new tracks to play. Those who don't should just pretend it doesn't exist. It doesn't change anything for them... except they still get the tracks down the road for free.

I was around during the "glory days" of MCM2, MVA, and near the beginning of MXS. Yes, there were somethings that were better about some of those communities. But in those days the level of time and effort and detail to make a quality track was also wayyyy less... (trust me, I did it then and now personally, and even with my way more advanced skillset now, it is a way deeper process). Also, DLC wasn't a thing then, nor was the competitive scene this in depth.

Until you've walked a mile in any of our shoes (building 17 SX tracks, 12 outdoor tracks, and numerous off season events each year with weekly deadlines, hosting races on them, etc. for 4+ years straight while dealing with a lot of complaining, you can't really judge what we're doing). I think the membership numbers speak loudly and clearly that the community does support rF and a membership system.

Have a good evening folks.

[Ohagan75]

Just out of curiosity chris how many people have registered memberships?

Also track is good, once you figure out lines. Some of those braking bumps are brutal.

[Motofinne #375]

I do understand that RF takes 25 bucks for the outdoor tracks. And that is fine, i'm not going to race that series anyway because of the timezone so i can wait for the free release of those tracks(although charging for tracks is a scary path since that changes the whole dynamic of the game).

But i just want to say one thing. Did MXS grow to the best MX game because of paid content? No it didn't. It grew because there were a lot of guys and girls that enjoyed making a great game even greater and sharing their ability to make excellent tracks, models and skins. That is mostly gone these days. The enthusiasm is gone from the core content creators(highly respected ones) and the new upcoming ones have somehow latched on the the micro transactions model that is getting totally trashed in other gaming industry.

You want to make a skin, model or track and charge money for it? Fine do that, but at least don't post it in any of the "upcoming content" threads.

Donations is the way to go(imo).

[checkerz]

You want to make a skin, model or track and charge money for it? Fine do that, but at least don't post it in any of the "upcoming content" threads.

Donations is the way to go(imo).

Part 1... I used to agree, but I also see it as necessary "marketing" for a sale for guys too.

Part 2... Unless forced to donate to get content, the buttons are very, very rarely used. It was proven to not be a viable option.

[Motofinne #375]

You want to make a skin, model or track and charge money for it? Fine do that, but at least don't post it in any of the "upcoming content" threads.

Donations is the way to go(imo).

Part 1... I used to agree, but I also see it as necessary "marketing" for a sale for guys too.

Part 2... Unless forced to donate to get content, the buttons are very, very rarely used. It was proven to not be a viable option.

1. Well the people that charges for content should then get an own section with content that isn't free. Or start an all new website that displays MXS content that isn't free.

2. That is sad to hear, but a bit expected. But donations should still be encouraged!

[TeamHavocRacing]

For the record, I have never asked for or tried to rush someone's content. Chex has gotten my thanks and support and has his feet on the ground about what a fair price is. Doesn't it stand to reason that JLV should follow this new business model that Mason defends so horribly? He's still got 5 new bike models he's working on, right? If anyone deserves compensation for unwavering devotion to making the game and community better, it's Josh L. Vanderhoof. He should by all means try to get back something for the 100's of hours spent making these 5 new bike models. Anyone care to extrapolate what he should charge for that release? Would he seem to have entitlement issues if he charged the going rate?

[m121c]

For the record, I have never asked for or tried to rush someone's content. Chex has gotten my thanks and support and has his feet on the ground about what a fair price is. Doesn't it stand to reason that JLV should follow this new business model that Mason defends so horribly? He's still got 5 new bike models he's working on, right? If anyone deserves compensation for unwavering devotion to making the game and community better, it's Josh L. Vanderhoof. He should by all means try to get back something for the 100's of hours spent making these 5 new bike models. Anyone care to extrapolate what he should charge for that release? Would he seem to have entitlement issues if he charged the going rate?

If you don't like it fine, not everyone agrees on certain things, but build a bridge and get the fuck over it you whine tit.

Please stop dragging back into to this you loony fruit basket.

Wanna know what he should charge? What every the flying shit he wants, you want to know why? Because it is his work and he can decide. Simple as that, I don't push for any "new business model", I just state that people are free to choose what they want to do with their work, and if it's choosing to keep things private and/or sell their content well that's the communities fault. There has to be a reason that so many creators now that have done way more work then you can even dream about in a power nap, are now NOT releasing their content. That is my only statement, you just try putting words and ideas about me or at me that are formed in your delusional mind and are no way reality.

Let's think logically in a business sense here. Why would Josh want to not grow his community? It is what drives his sales, why do you think he was quick to do this for rF? Why was he so quick to develop a scram file for use creators getting stuff ripped? Why has he donated to rF sense he has dropped SX? Simple, he knows that keeping this community going and growing only creates more of a draw. New bike models that he can advertise? More of a draw. More user made content and racing? Yet again, more draw.

By your last sentence you are trying to say, because the going rate is much over $100, that you are feeling that I for example, feel entitled to that price range? I'm confused on your definition of entitlement, I don't think you know the meaning. I showed you examples to prove to you that the prices really are not so crazily unreasonable, and then I gave a clear as day reason as to why my work is priced the way it is. You keep skipping over that part. So please explain why you think it's an entitlement issue. Go on. You keep throwing out all these accusations but you're not walking the talk, nor giving any reasons to back your dense statements.

You really are the definition of the stupid and ignorant.

[nickuzick]

Havoc, I think someone with as much life experience as you should know when to bail out of a conversation. Mason has nothing but solid points and all you seem to do is ignore it as if you can't possible be wrong. Open your eyes dude, it's someone else's work and they can decide how it's used.

[TeamHavocRacing]

Thanks Nick, I was waiting for you to chime in. Now we can all breathe easier. I'm sure he would yell louder than me if we were face to face. This is really about the moral high road, JLV is on it and Chex is too. They unfortunately won't get more people to act that way, but overpriced shit will give big ideas to other creators. It's basically the gentrification of this community and it's lame. You seem to think it helps.

[nickuzick]

I never once said it helps. The issue I have is that you take it upon yourself to point out all these "flaws" when you don't understand the half.

[checkerz]

Thanks Nick, I was waiting for you to chime in. Now we can all breathe easier. I'm sure he would yell louder than me if we were face to face. This is really about the moral high road, JLV is on it and Chex is too. They unfortunately won't get more people to act that way, but overpriced shit will give big ideas to other creators. It's basically the gentrification of this community and it's lame. You seem to think it helps.

The arguing aside, from what I understand the reason for the price of Mason's Honda is because the current release infrastructure doesn't allow models to be "protected" and isn't able to force users to actually buy the model to use it. Instead, it just takes 1 person buying it to give to everyone they know. The high price meant less sales would be needed to make it worth the while, and the less sales means the less leaks. Now, I've always said a system without checks/balances is destined for failure from the start, but in Mason's case it was worth it to try versus just keeping the bike to himself or completely exclusive. I am sure if there was a guarantee only guys that bought the bike would get the bike, he'd have more than likely been able to consider a lower price point to provide to more guys.

I think if you try to look at it from that angle you may understand a bit better. At the same point, it is up to the creator what they should and should not do with their content, time, and talents.

[checkerz]

WHY CHANGE WHAT HAS BEEN COMPLETELY FINE FOR SO MANY YEARS SO WHY CHANGE!

Yes, completely fine for you. The guy who is getting all the content for free. Not fine for those of us putting in the constant work. Until you've walked a mile in our shoes, please respect our decision enough to agree to disagree and move on. It isn't a tax, we aren't forcing you to pay it.