Rider Movements

[motokid499]

Buckle up, you guys aren't going to like this one

I think it's long overdue we talk about the rider movements in this game, and why we all look like we're on cocaine bike humping at the speed of light. Many settings in this game allow for unrealistic values and personally I think limiting these settings to more realistic values will both benefit the gameplay and viewer experience. The current settings allow for huge lines as we are able to throw the rider weight around near instantaneously, much quicker than pros are capable of irl. It will also make the games rider movements look more natural and organic from a viewers perspective.

I know changing this will be tough for a lot of players, but I'm hoping by everyone being effected by this change, you won't see it as a bad thing. If we all collectively agree on a lower max rider forward spring, then everybody gets put at the same disadvantage.

With this change I also would love to see a larger range of rider movements to compensate for losing the speed, the current "full lean" just doesn't quite feel like enough. I think it would be amazing to be able to hang off the back fender get a bit more range, lean forward and almost kiss my front fender if I want to.

Tl;Dr slower rider movements but bigger range of motion / be able to lean further back/further forward.

I know, don't fix what ain't broke. Admittedly I was just watching mx simulator gameplay without the rose coloured glasses of it being my favourite game of all time, and realized the rider looks like a meth'd up kid on redbull. They've been the same forever and changing something this drastic this late in development is definitely questionable but I think it's a change in the right direction.

Let me know what you guys think.

[Owen_913]

got a +1 from me. Would be cool im ngl and a fresh breath in the game.

[Rowella94]

+1 from me, I think this could be very beneficial to the game and give it a nice breath of fresh air

[jlv]

There is some stuff I can do to loosen up the rider. Not going to happen until I've redone the terrain engine.

[baker]

…realized the rider looks like a meth'd up kid on redbull….

Holy shit meth and redbull

+1 on this for me too

[AHeckman2]

There is some stuff I can do to loosen up the rider. Not going to happen until I've redone the terrain engine.

Can't wait to see this, do you have plans to start it soon or are there still other things you're working on?

[jlv]

Can't wait to see this, do you have plans to start it soon or are there still other things you're working on?

The terrain engine? I'm already doing that. Working on getting rid of reshading now.

[AHeckman2]

Can't wait to see this, do you have plans to start it soon or are there still other things you're working on?

The terrain engine? I'm already doing that. Working on getting rid of reshading now.

Oh sick!! I'm hyped for it, bet it brings a lot of people back to the game once its finished

[Motospun]

I don't necessarily think we should be able to lean much further forward or back than we already can but I think that heavy G-force should cause the rider to move further forward and back than he does currently. Here's an example of what I mean, In this scenario, the g-force should cause the rider to basically fall into the bike, his nuts should slam into the bars. But since he stops moving the force goes to either side.

In real life in this scenario, I don't think I would've started falling to the side, the force would've caused me to fall into the bike but instead, the force shoots off to the side.


If you pause this video on Impact you can see how much he falls into the bike before the bike shoots off to the side.


I guess the best way I could explain it is the rider is already as far forward as he can go so the force has nowhere to go but left or right.


The opposite of this is mainly noticeable when tire tapping or hitting whoops but it would apply to braking bumps as well. Just look at how stiff the rider is in this gif. When the back wheel hits the top the rider should naturally be pulled back by the forces.


Arms fully extend, ass slides all the way to back fender.


Keep an eye on #45, the G-force forces him back on the bike each time the rear tire hits a whoop. In sim, the rider can't be forced that far back which pitches the bike forward in a situation like this.


It seems like most whoops in sim are made very rounded and unrealistic to accommodate for the fact that the rider can't be forced back on the bike. Adjusting this could allow for more realistic, more triangle whoops to work better. This is a picture of the whoops on 2021 RF Orlando 1. The whoops seem to be made almost flat on the top with a slight tilt upwards so you basically bounce from whoop to whoop.


Supercross whoops in real life are generally more triangular and the riders basically smack the face of each one but they only hit the very top of the face making it look like they're riding the tops of them. I'm aware not all whoops are exactly like this but sims current rider movements don't allow for these kinds of whoops to work properly.


If you've ever tried to cup out whoops in sim the way they get cupped in real life you probably know that 99% of the time the bike will land in the cup/pocket then jump up over the next whoop or two. I think more range of motion when under heavy G-force would allow for the bike to absorb the cups/pockets better and kick the bike forward rather than making it launch like you're hitting a take off.

[AHeckman2]

Really good points Pilsner! That would be sick if JLV could do that

[Xkxmotokid]

+1

[motokid499]

Really good points Pilsner! That would be sick if JLV could do that

I agree with the concept of what Pilsner is trying to accomplish, I just think I would do it differently. One of the reason's I prefer MXS over MXB is the full manual control you have, whether it be handlebar control or rider movements. I had a good chat with Pilsner and agree the rider slamming into the lean limits and redirecting forces is a problem. Personally I don't want to give up full manual control in order to accomplish this though.



Something like this can be accomplished with properly tuned rider vertical and forward settings, and with a bigger range of rider movements I could simply lean back more manually at rear wheel impact if needed. I definitely don't want my rider to just automatically do it for me, it would make timing rider movements irrelevant and decrease the skill gap that makes this game so amazing. I'd go play MXB if I wanted my rider to lean for me.

[motokid499]

If you've ever tried to cup out whoops in sim the way they get cupped in real life you probably know that 99% of the time the bike will land in the cup/pocket then jump up over the next whoop or two. I think more range of motion when under heavy G-force would allow for the bike to absorb the cups/pockets better and kick the bike forward rather than making it launch like you're hitting a take off.

DP but I believe this happens simply because 99% of people run their rider extremely rigid to hold up to the insane forces happening on the overscaled
tracks we race. If we simply loosened up the rider to absorb more forces, and then extended the range of rider movements, it should be enough to fix the problem.

From my understanding you want two limit points for rider lean - one limit for how far you can manually lean (current lean limit) and then allow external forces to manipulate the rider at a range much larger than your manual control. I think this would be a good solution, just a little bit too much in the direction of MXB for me. I think if we can fix the problem and still get full manual range it would be best case scenario.

[Wahlamt]

Really good points Pilsner! That would be sick if JLV could do that

I agree with the concept of what Pilsner is trying to accomplish, I just think I would do it differently. One of the reason's I prefer MXS over MXB is the full manual control you have, whether it be handlebar control or rider movements. I had a good chat with Pilsner and agree the rider slamming into the lean limits and redirecting forces is a problem. Personally I don't want to give up full manual control in order to accomplish this though.



Something like this can be accomplished with properly tuned rider vertical and forward settings, and with a bigger range of rider movements I could simply lean back more manually at rear wheel impact if needed. I definitely don't want my rider to just automatically do it for me, it would make timing rider movements irrelevant and decrease the skill gap that makes this game so amazing. I'd go play MXB if I wanted my rider to lean for me.

I would personally like full wheelie control, no restrictions as we done now. If this viewtopic.php?p=552203#p552203 is still a thing.

[Motospun]

If you've ever tried to cup out whoops in sim the way they get cupped in real life you probably know that 99% of the time the bike will land in the cup/pocket then jump up over the next whoop or two. I think more range of motion when under heavy G-force would allow for the bike to absorb the cups/pockets better and kick the bike forward rather than making it launch like you're hitting a take off.

DP but I believe this happens simply because 99% of people run their rider extremely rigid to hold up to the insane forces happening on the overscaled
tracks we race. If we simply loosened up the rider to absorb more forces, and then extended the range of rider movements, it should be enough to fix the problem.

From my understanding, you want two limit points for rider lean - one limit for how far you can manually lean (current lean limit) and then allow external forces to manipulate the rider at a range much larger than your manual control. I think this would be a good solution, just a little bit too much in the direction of MXB for me. I think if we can fix the problem and still get full manual range it would be best case scenario.

The problem I see with having full manual control as we have right now is that no matter how strong or skilled you are in real life you don't have manual control of the bike when taking on heavy g-force. In this example, I think the forces are so great that the rider should be forced forward at least a little bit no matter what. Imagine someone trying to replicate this in real life, their stomach would most likely be forced over the bars no matter how hard they tried to stop it.


There's a fine line between giving us control over what the rider does and letting the g-force move the rider around. Most players have their settings set up very rigid because when you loosen them up it's like your rider loses leg strength and he crashes much easier from overjumping/under jumping, he basically folds like a twig so the trade-off isn't worth it. I don't think it will feel like mxb because in mxb you can hit a set of bumps or whoops wide open while leaning forward and the bike just absorbs everything for you so there's something seriously wrong with that game's physics. The reason I don't want to loosen up the rider to absorb more forces and then extend the range of rider movements as you said is I feel like we'll have the same problem. You'll lean to the riders limit then take a hit and there will be nowhere for the forces to go so they'll go to the side. Heavy g-force needs to be able to force the rider further forward and backward than we can move the rider manually.

In this example he's being forced further back than he would ever lean on his own. He's taking such a heavy hit that his body is being forced to stretch to it's limit.


I think it's at least worth trying and in the end, I think all it will do is help us move towards more realistic tracks because right now we're running the most baby rolled off whoops ever to compensate which ends up making the whoops super fast which ends up making them crazy sketchy because any little kick or swap is basically unsavable at such high speeds.